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asmaloney

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Registered: 08/02/2004
Posts: 214
Quote by LWC:
asmaloney, you forgot the most evil category of all. The one that even the worst of the worst of your categories can't compete with:
"I know you don't have time and this is broken, so I fixed it for you for free."
The message is simple, no one expects you to work on the plugins, but also not to stop others from doing so - especially when they're willing to hand you back the plugin when you want it.


Nobody is trying to stop you working on the plugins, but you just tried to release new versions of plugins under the same name and versioning without the consent of the authors. That's confusing for the users not to mention disrespectful to the developers. If you want to release them - fine - it's within your rights to do so, but fork them properly, don't elbow your way in and try to take them over.

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Tony

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Registered: 17/12/2001
Posts: 405
Location:Urbandale, Iowa
LWC, let me put it a different way. You lack tact.

All this is sort of like being in an elevator with all of us and having you fart...you offended everyone around you and managed to stink up the joint. All everyone is saying to you is that you could have done all the same things, maybe even earned CVS commit rights to the very projects you hijacked if you only had some....Tact.

Ironically I find the work you did of tremendous value but you approached it in such an a$$backwards fashion that it has overshadowed what you could have accomplished had you only had....you guessed it.

Tact.

My advice to you, is be quiet, regroup (an apology wouldn't be out of order) and see if you can't get on the right track here as I'd hate to see a good-coder go bad.

--Tony

The reason people blame things on previous generations is that there's only one other choice.

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LWC

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Registered: 19/02/2004
Posts: 818
Already said it's in progress. Just tried to show it's not a black/white situation as some would like to believe. Surely not picturing a world where the other person "just changes some lines" and surely not pretending you can be reached when one year old topics sit abandoned on your forums and e-mails go unanswered and there's no CVS. Of course once it's said, you immediately drop this arguement and switch to the "it's my right to be busy" one. And it is! It totally is! But it angers you both to be asked to do things and to have someone else actually doing them.

You implied it yourself when you said if someone doesn't do anything alone and demands you to fix something for them, you find it irritating and unmotivating. But if someone fixes it themselves...you still find it irritating and unmotivating. You basically leave no way out as some aren't even reachable.

And if you claim it's your right to leave no way out, just say it, just say it out loud and stop trying to play both games. Say "it is my damn right to outdate my code! Just fork it if you want and stop stealing." At least don't go around the bush and it would save this endless fighting, that's also useless because I'm already changing the names.

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samstone

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Registered: 29/09/2002
Posts: 820
Say "it is my damn right to outdate my code! Just fork it if you want and stop stealing."


LWC, I think they have already said it.

As a franstrated long term GL user and non-coder, your contribution is a tremendous help. I am sure, I wouldn't have known these rules and might make the same mistake. However, like Tony said, I think you definitely need to be tactful, particularly in your expressions.

Based on my past experience with you, I know you have pure motives and sincere intention to push GL to a higher level. But you tend to express it contentiously.

The plugin owners obviously feel offended (not by what you did) by the way you did it. However, their judgement of your motive is not true.

As far as I know, the GL team does not have GL as their priority. They just work together in the GL enviroment to develop their own professional projects. That's why GL has a great deal of professional quality, but it is only a by product. Unless there is some demand (e.g. by their clients) to move their script to the next level, they have other things, including their family, to be busy with. (Not everyone is Mark Evens, who you and I know presented the most outstanding plugin and support we've ever seen in this community.)

LWC, I think you are a young single man, full of fire. I can see your vision that you want these plugins to become a team product, like the main GL script. Why don't you make it so, since they don't mind that you fork them with new names. You might even draw some co-coders to work with you on these plugins, if you set up a CVS.

Just my 2 cents.

Sam

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samstone

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Registered: 29/09/2002
Posts: 820
LWC,

You asked me to send you the plugins that don't mind you to give them a lift.

I think EasyFile has great potential and is now abandoned. I don't think the author is around here anymore. Still you can fork it to play safe. I like its usage of the GL permission features.

Another one that I can think of is the Weather Block. It is abandoned too. All Squatty's plugins are abandoned, ever since he got married a couple of years ago. (That's what happen when you get married!).


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LWC

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Registered: 19/02/2004
Posts: 818
No...I asked you to send me people who don't mind helping coding.

How many plugins do you think I can handle alone? I'm already getting interesting feature requests but I'm busy renaming and creating importing facitilies. Not to mention now I have to re-apply everything that the new official MultiFAQ still lacks (like the fact it's not register_globals free like my version by keeping using stuff like $REMOTE_ADDR).

tokyoahead

Anonymous
like the fact it's not register_globals free like my version by keeping using stuff like $REMOTE_ADDR

You are, as I said, as always, welcome to inform me about bugs and feature requests or submit code to the project. Thats why I explicitly asked for help fixing bug, thats why one releases a RC1.

Of course, you do not have to. You can work by yourself and rework all that stuff for all future releases.

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bjudson

Forum User
Junior
Registered: 01/01/2004
Posts: 34
freakingout
Wow. That was... umm entertaining?

So LWC I'm going to start out by saying "like alot of other people who use Geeklog I appreciate your efforts."

Tokyohead, I agree with you that LWC shouldn't have hijacked your plugin. And LWC, while you were giving him credit, that is what you did. You didn't mean to but you did.

Tokyohead you seem to be a rational person, you have worked to try and leave the possibility open that LWC could contribute to the "official" codebase sometime in the future.

The problem here is that LWC acted without the knowledge of how something like this should be co-ordinated. He seems to be a well skilled programmer, and your comment about how he could write one of his own pulgin (to essentially "prove his worthyness" to contribute) was likely taken by him as insulting. By him (and many GL users) he has proven himself by adding features and bugfixes to YOUR plugin. I can understand your anger at the time, cuz he just couldn't figure out when to shut up, or that you were trying to extend an olive branch.

I wouldn't be writing if that was all there was to it though... I frankly don't want to choose between feature A or feature B of essentially the same plug-in. This will save everyone users, and developers a lot of work. That is if Tokyohead you are willing to do so, and if LWC can put behind the bitterness and learn from his well intentioned mistake.

LWC the "proper" way of contributing (as you have probably learned now) to a plug-in is to contact the developer. If the developer won't agree or won't reply, then FORK the plug-in.

But you probably don't have to fork all your current work!!!

Take the version that you modified and create a diff (for the patch program) from the version you modified from. This will give the changes you implemented. Then start re-writing them for the latest version of the plug-in (from CVS). Submit the new diff's as patches to tokyohead (where it would be best to implement one feature at a time so he can keep things straight). Tokyohead can then agree to commit or reject your patch. If he really wants the help (and it sounds like he would like the help from a qualified coder) he will commit the code or reject it with a reason and we can all work as one team.

Ideally you will both be good friends after a few exchanges of patches, where you both learn to respect each other, author/maintainer and developer.

LWC As you have already said you will have to re-work this whole thing for Tokyohead's 1.4.1 release anyway you might as well stop the bleeding now, you seem fairly rational (aside from this thread where you are mostly just angry and hurt that people didn't appreciate your hard work, after your initial post).

This doesn't have to just be Tokyohead either, all the plugin-ins can be done this way. If you don't want to be constantly chasing the latest version and re-applying your changes then this is best for everyone.

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kemal

Forum User
Regular Poster
Registered: 05/04/2005
Posts: 103
Location:Turkey
i installed again (fixed version of) forum to my other test site.
Then i opened a topic, assigned mods.
i want to say letters are very very small ( i was blinding!)
and on the forum settings page only Location showing and running!!!

lets try to forum:

looking very good (same as old version)
but when i opening a topic says
Read-Only Forum
Access Denied! Only the Moderators can post to this forum
but i didnt check read only box!!

this (copy) versions like a bug machine!..


_KEMAL_

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kemal

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Registered: 05/04/2005
Posts: 103
Location:Turkey
oh i forget it!

adding mod. not working too!
_KEMAL_

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LWC

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Registered: 19/02/2004
Posts: 818
Kemal, I didn't touch the CSS so I can't comment. If/when I touch it, I'll change everything to EM. As for the bugs, have you fixed your upgrade problem? Because I do all of the stuff you said without any problems whatsoever. And make sure you always use the latest version (I update it all the time) before you comment.

bjudson, I'm sorry I answer when being talked to even though you think only the other side has the right to keep defending itself to infinity. I'm also sorry it's irrational in your eyes to defend my work. Also, unlike what you said, that was the insulting part.

For example, I've halted the forking of MultiFAQ and instead submitted all of my work to Tokyoahead's Sourceforge page as bug fixes and patches. Even though I've "only changed a few lines" (that, dear bjudson, is what makes me "irrational"), somehow I (and I'm the only one in his page except maybe people who just watch) raised his page's activity to 98.73%.
Now the ball is in your court, Tokyoahead. I have no desire to start a useless fork the forking of which takes more time than the real work itself, but at some point I'll have to bother so as not to give up on those fixes and new features.

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kemal

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Registered: 05/04/2005
Posts: 103
Location:Turkey
i am not fixed the ugrade problem (turn to original version). I said before, i tryed to other site. And i didn't upgrade, i installed from zero.. and i said before, i installed lastest fixed version
_KEMAL_

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samstone

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Registered: 29/09/2002
Posts: 820
LWC,

I tested your version of Filemgmt, just to sample it, and I ran into an error that locked me out of my site.

Now I understand why you insist on helping, rather than forking. You are a good trouble shooter and great assistant, like the way you help Mark Evans on track with the bugs. Now, I don't have confidence that you can handle a fork, (No pun intended!) unless you are able to draw some help from others.

Just a thought!

Sam

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LWC

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Registered: 19/02/2004
Posts: 818
All this speech simply because you can't run "mb_substr" ("call to undefined function")? Which PHP version do you have? php.net says it comes with v4.0.6 while Geeklog's minimum is v4.1.0 so I don't get it. Ask whoever is in charge of your server what is going on.

In any case, I'm warning you ahead that it's used in many places. I rather write a big "if you use this plugin, make sure you can use mb_substr" title than a "if you use this plugin, usage of RTL in your files' descriptions would ruin your site and life as we know it".

I have a good search and replace program though. I can replace in some seconds each and every occurence of mb_substr with substr and release it with the latter title. But if I can't work with a v4.0.6 command like mb_substr, who knows what else I can't work with?

With that said, already encouraged you to send me help from othes...

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LWC

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Registered: 19/02/2004
Posts: 818
P.S.
The new calendar plugin uses mb_substr (if your site uses UTF-8, which is the default in v1.4.1), so maybe you should send Dirk packing to the help department too.

Alas, a simple Google search led me to a solution. Seems like you need "enable-mbstring" enabled in your PHP install. Go ahead and tell your server's admin because you should do it for v1.4.1 anyway.

From php.net:

mbstring is a non-default extension. This means it is not enabled by default. You must explicitly enable the module with the configure option.
...
--enable-mbstring: Enable mbstring functions. This option is required to use mbstring functions.

I'll go help Dirk prepare the suitcases.

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samstone

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Registered: 29/09/2002
Posts: 820
You make it sound that it was my stupidity that makes me run into this error.

I manage my own servers. My PHP is 4.4.3 and I am running GL 1.4.1b1 and I have no problem running the GL Calendar.

LWC, you are a smart guy. But, the way you treat other as stupid would make you run into more problems. I don't know if anyone would like to help you with the way you speak down on them?

Sam

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LWC

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Registered: 19/02/2004
Posts: 818
I've just quoted from the calendar. Maybe your language in Geeklog isn't in Unicode and/or maybe you've just never used the function in the calendar that uses this command.

I'll be a happy person when I understand why is it ok for you to tell me to stick to the help support for an error you later took self blame for (and even if it's not your fault, Dirk will cause you the same error too), but no matter what and how I say I sound bad. Believe me I wouldn't "talk down" on you if you just came and reported an error and asked me to fix it without, well, talking down on me yourself (for an error you later found out Geeklog itself will cause you, so why was the slander needed?).

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samstone

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Registered: 29/09/2002
Posts: 820
Guess I am the last one that is stupid enough to engage in this dialog out of sympathy. Its seems that you have determined to isolate yourself.

Good luck!

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LWC

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Registered: 19/02/2004
Posts: 818
Just wanted to thank Tokyoahead who stood up to his word and said he agreed to implement my suggestions and looks like he works hard on the CVS. Hope to see the new version soon!

tokyoahead

Anonymous
if you use this plugin, make sure you can use mb_substr


You do not need to use mb_substr in 1.4.1 anymore. I wrote a library called lib-mbyte where all important functions are replaced by a conditional workaround in case mb_-functions are not available:

You can use MBYTE_substr instead of mb_substr etc. It will then work for all systems and use mb-functions where available.

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