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Feelers for a new theme


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jmucchiello

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Quote by: CavemanJoe

1. Can we have the links in the "Topics" box styled like the black links up top? I mean, like I've done at http://www.retroreviews.net/, only less sucky.

You may like that but others don't. There are other themes that have blocky headers and there are those that don't. This theme happens not to have them.
3. If this is gonna be the new default theme for 1.5, why the hell are we talking about this in the forum, and not on the home page of Geeklog.net as a featured story? Honestly, excellent coders though the core team are, they've just got no sense of showmanship.
Because Eric is working on this for himself. He's not a core dev. He's just a guy making a theme. Other folks have said this could make a cool new default theme. Again, not core devs, just others with opinions. Second, when Eric showed up here looking for critiques, he picked the forums for his post. Submitting a story makes no sense until the theme is done and ready to go.
Why is it behind the scenes? With the stuff going on with Geeklog, the devs should have the public eating out of the palms of their hands, counting the seconds 'til the next release, with baited breath and no small amount of sexual arousal.
TMI!!! And, this is not something the devs want or need. People who are anxious tend to become annoying. (Is it done yet? Is it done yet? Is it done yet?) Now, a totally unsexy roadmap I heartily endorse. But apparently the devs have decided that time to spend on Geeklog should be time spent coding and not time making pretty "about Geeklog" websites. Certainly understandable since the devs enjoy the coding far more than the PR work. And when you think about it, if you made core dev work a chore, who would do it?
(edit - why the hell doesn't my pasting in http://www.retroreviews.net/ create a link to retroreviews.net?!)
Because the forum author (Blaine) at some point decided he would not call COM_makeClickableLinks before saving forum comments. The function is just sitting there in lib-common.php and he's a core dev, too. So I'm guessing he either had a reason or just didn't think to add the call. Go to portalparts.com (his support site) and make a feature request.

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geiss

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Quote by: jmucchiello


3. If this is gonna be the new default theme for 1.5, why the hell are we talking about this in the forum, and not on the home page of Geeklog.net as a featured story? Honestly, excellent coders though the core team are, they've just got no sense of showmanship.
Because Eric is working on this for himself. He's not a core dev. He's just a guy making a theme. Other folks have said this could make a cool new default theme. Again, not core devs, just others with opinions. Second, when Eric showed up here looking for critiques, he picked the forums for his post. Submitting a story makes no sense until the theme is done and ready to go.



Exactly right Joe. To be clear, the theme discussed in this thread has not been given a green light for inclusion in GL v1.5 (yet). I just formally asked the core devs via the mailing list. If they want it, they will let me know. If not, then my intent is to release it to the community just like all my other themes. My main intent with this forum thread was to seek feedback on the theme, (and I am grateful for all of the feedback received thus far) and also show that there is more than just mild interest in a new default GL theme.

Quote by: jmucchiello


Now, a totally unsexy roadmap I heartily endorse. But apparently the devs have decided that time to spend on Geeklog should be time spent coding and not time making pretty "about Geeklog" websites. Certainly understandable since the devs enjoy the coding far more than the PR work. And when you think about it, if you made core dev work a chore, who would do it?



I heartily agree. Yet additionally, just because the core devs choose not to focus on the PR side, doesn't mean that it isn't needed and should continue to be neglected. I think it would be wise to enlist the aid of long time proven GL contributors (like yourself and others) that have an interest in these other PR needs of GL that often go by the wayside, and give them some responsibilities and some sense of ownership over the site, etc. I've often found that a good programmer does not necessarily make a good webmaster, or a good PR person, etc.

I also second the need for a GL dev roadmap. It needs it in the worst way! Even if it is just someone stripping the essence out of the dev mailing list and posting it somewhere on a static page. Something concrete to benchmark progress toward, focus on desired features, and give a general sense of ongoing development is highly needed. The forum is an ideal place for this. A read-only forum for the actual roadmap, and then developer topics and threads for each coding project. IMHO, that email list has served it's purpose, but seriously needs to be retired.

Calls for feature requests, pruning/prioritizing that list, assigning coding tasks/groups to each item on that list, following up as self-imposed deadlines approach, beta release, release candidates, final release. Start the process over again. Its relatively simple when stated in these over-arching terms, but at any given step with the way things are in their current state, I couldn't give you a clear picture on any of them. That is what a roadmap is for. To get you where you want to go. Without it, you're just driving around aimlessly.

Thx!

Eric 'Geiss' Warren
Synergy - Stability - Style --- Visit us at glfusion.org

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CavemanJoe

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So... what we need is someone to do the PR side of things, so the devs don't have to?

What we want, what we really need, is a designer (well, we've got Geiss, and I've been working on a coupla themes too...), a copy writer who can excite people, and some ways to get the word out.

Hmm. I may have to take a look at my schedule and see if I can fit in some quality Geeklog-promotion time.
Silly browser RPG: improbableisland.com!

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jmucchiello

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Quote by: CavemanJoe

What we want, what we really need, is a designer (well, we've got Geiss, and I've been working on a coupla themes too...), a copy writer who can excite people, and some ways to get the word out.

And none of that is possible without the devs to tell the copywriter what to write. Which if they could do that they could put up some kind of page.

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geiss

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Quote by: jmucchiello

And none of that is possible without the devs to tell the copywriter what to write. Which if they could do that they could put up some kind of page.



...not to mention granting site access to others to manage these things. Collaboration is hard to foster when there appears to be trust and/or control issues. I've always felt that actions speak louder than words, and trust with responsibility should be earned. But on the other hand, I know of a few regular meaningful contributors to the project that end up just being bystanders. Not because of their inaction or unwillingness to lend a hand, but because of the lack of action of those who hold the keys to delegate and off-load some of the burden.

Just my :twocents:

Eric 'Geiss' Warren
Synergy - Stability - Style --- Visit us at glfusion.org

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machinari

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I certainly hope that you guys aren't pluggin for the job of pr guy, cuz really, c'mon, all this complaining about what you aren't getting or how unsatisfying this or that is and how the devs suck so much.. Clearly you all want the site to look great and be inviting and all that stuff that you mentioned, but you might as well be defacing the site what with all your complaining about this or that not happening the way you all think it should, etc. Talk about showmanship? don't.

The last couple weeks have been so depressing I haven't wanted to even visit geeklog.net. But of course I did for some morbid urge to see who or what was going to get cut down next.

Beyond any of that, I do agree that a pr guy would be cool. and a copywriter that has ever done any shouldn't really need to be told what to write. They should be competent enough to figure it out. Like all of us who already click a few times before we find the info we're looking for, and we do find it eventually (don't say you don't), the info is there for the dude to do whatever he does with it, wrap it in a colorful bow or whatever...

even all this talk about a new default theme.. fine. it may be a good idea and exciting and all that, but when it looks like the new theme might not make it into 1.5, if even at all, then let's get down on the devs some more cuz surely they must suck.

Don't get me wrong, as I go in yet another direction, the theme in question looks great if even still "looking" like the present theme, and the new functionality that geiss has introduced into it is awesome--I'm impressed, btw--but because it remains so similar to the look and feel of the present theme I have to ask, what's the big deal? Why is my inbox full with questions like, "why haven't you given me an answer yet?" whether the question is about the default theme or some code that should be in the core or why nobody has asked you or you or some other you to be on the core team yet when you've done such awesome work for the community?

glad I'm not a core dev cuz you'd all be bching at me. I couldn't put up with the complaints. of course I can hardly put up with constructive criticism nevermind bching.

my 2 cents? if you want better pr, do better pr. Write some stuff up. Heck, geiss, have someone take all the current content from gl and put it up into your new theme, rearranged and rewritten or whatever, then show the core devs what "it" could be.

So I guess all that counts as a complaint too then, eh? whoops.

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jmucchiello

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Quote by: machinari

I certainly hope that you guys aren't pluggin for the job of pr guy, cuz really, c'mon, all this complaining about what you aren't getting or how unsatisfying this or that is and how the devs suck so much.

Just stop right there. No one says the devs suck. The complaint is they are silent. What they do they do well. But they put zero priority into telling others what's going on.
but you might as well be defacing the site what with all your complaining about this or that not happening the way you all think it should
Wrong. This is an open source project. Open source projects are open. As such they must air their dirty laundry for everyone in the world to see. Remember the complaint here is silence. The only way to combat silence is to make noise. We aren't defacing the site. Try reading the Linux developer's mailling list. This is Ms Manners approved comparatively.

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geiss

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Quote by: machinari

I certainly hope that you guys aren't pluggin for the job of pr guy, cuz really, c'mon, all this complaining about what you aren't getting or how unsatisfying this or that is and how the devs suck so much.. Clearly you all want the site to look great and be inviting and all that stuff that you mentioned, but you might as well be defacing the site what with all your complaining about this or that not happening the way you all think it should, etc. Talk about showmanship? don't.



Let me state for the record, I do not want to be a PR guy. I'm just someone who cares about Geeklog, and likes to make it look pretty. :wink: I think it unfair of you to put words in my mouth about how devs "suck". I've never said anything of the sort. Period. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Quote by: machinari


The last couple weeks have been so depressing I haven't wanted to even visit geeklog.net. But of course I did for some morbid urge to see who or what was going to get cut down next.



To my knowledge, I've never participated in any of the behavior you describe above. If you feel I have, please point it out to me, because I am only human and perhaps my intent was misinterpreted.

Quote by: machinari


Beyond any of that, I do agree that a pr guy would be cool. and a copywriter that has ever done any shouldn't really need to be told what to write. They should be competent enough to figure it out. Like all of us who already click a few times before we find the info we're looking for, and we do find it eventually (don't say you don't), the info is there for the dude to do whatever he does with it, wrap it in a colorful bow or whatever...



I agree with you completely. However, like Mark Evans points out below on the dev mailing list this evening:

Quote by: mevans


I've watched this thread with interest. The feeling I've walked away with
is that there seems to be a big desire to not include anything done outside
the core group.



Yes, some info is there. Some of it is current, and some is outdated terribly, almost embarassingly. Yes, one can do whatever one wants with it, but ultimately, how does duplicating content on another GL site help the main project? Wouldn't it be better to focus that energy in one main place, consolidating the community rather than fragmenting it?

Let me give an example. I saw a need for more themes for GL. I began porting, not complaining. I solicited feedback because I highly value others input, (not praise mind you, input - there is a big difference there) and feel that all ideas are important (part of the reason I feel it important to express my own ideas :wink: ) I receive feedback - not so much here, but at gllabs.org. I continue exploring different theme ideas, releasing my work back to the GL community that I feel I've become a part of. Time goes on, I see the need to document how I go about porting themes. Perhaps my knowledge will help another. I state that observation (much like I have stated other observations above) and Mark gives me Wiki access on his site and says, "Have at it!" The results of Mark's generosity, and trust, can be viewed here. My hope is that it has benefited the GL community in some way. Nothing more, nothing less. Fast forward a bit. I share with Mark that I am thinking about starting a GL theme site, and ask his advice since he has a great site. He gives me his thoughts among which is an invitation to use his site for that purpose and opens the door to me without reservation. He gives me full admin access to the site and full FTP! To say the least I am humbled, and have a lot of respect for him and his willingness to give me a shot. Since that time, I've continued with my theme creation hobby. A little while ago, I'm poking through the dev email list and I see several theme discussions going on (August's archive mainly). And Mark approaches me with the idea of a new theme for GL. I start working, and this thread is the result of that. I've never once said that this will be the new theme for GL. I said potentially.


Quote by: machinari


even all this talk about a new default theme.. fine. it may be a good idea and exciting and all that, but when it looks like the new theme might not make it into 1.5, if even at all, then let's get down on the devs some more cuz surely they must suck.



Neither Dirk, Blaine, or anyone else has said the theme will not be included. I have directly asked Blaine yesterday, and echoed the same on the dev mailing list. I am patiently waiting for a yay or nay. I understand everyone is busy, and are probably debating it amongst themselves, as I would do if I were in their shoes. Whatever the outcome, I'm happy. If not included in 1.5, I'll release it as a stand-alone theme for 1.4.1. (And even if it is included, I'll probably release a stand-alone 1.4.1 version, since that what it's currently running on.) But here's the rub - a decision needs to be made on the theme soon, if GL1.5 is going to be going into beta sometime in November or the end of the year, as Dirk stated he would like to see happen in the mailing list.


Quote by: machinari


Don't get me wrong, as I go in yet another direction, the theme in question looks great if even still "looking" like the present theme, and the new functionality that geiss has introduced into it is awesome--I'm impressed, btw--but because it remains so similar to the look and feel of the present theme I have to ask, what's the big deal? Why is my inbox full with questions like, "why haven't you given me an answer yet?" whether the question is about the default theme or some code that should be in the core or why nobody has asked you or you or some other you to be on the core team yet when you've done such awesome work for the community?



The look remaining similar to the professional theme was intentional. Again, my goal was to not re-invent the wheel, but to just give it a face lift. The professional theme is a good theme. Well contructed, light-weight, renders well across platforms, etc. All I am trying to do is build upon it with some new style. Please point me to an email from the dev list where "why haven't you given me an answer yet?" has come from my address.


Quote by: machinari


glad I'm not a core dev cuz you'd all be bching at me. I couldn't put up with the complaints. of course I can hardly put up with constructive criticism nevermind bching.



I don't feel I've slighted anyone here. You are of course free to disagree. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's a dialogue, and that's what is important. I understand where you are coming from re: constructive criticism. Sometimes its hard to step back and be objective. Especially when you have worked so hard on something and others find little value in it. I think you'd agree though, what's worse is silence.

Quote by: machinari


my 2 cents? if you want better pr, do better pr. Write some stuff up. Heck, geiss, have someone take all the current content from gl and put it up into your new theme, rearranged and rewritten or whatever, then show the core devs what "it" could be.



I don't want to do PR, but I do enjoy creating themes. Mr. Green Mark has shared his resources with me, and I appreciate it and have been doing what you describe above. That is what http://geiss.getmyip.com/gl141 is all about. Big Grin

Quote by: machinari


So I guess all that counts as a complaint too then, eh? whoops.

:doh: Big Grin

One final thought occured to me. Anyone following the dev list, please know that my crusade for XHTML is separate from the theme development I am doing. They are not dependent upon each other.

Thx!

Eric
Synergy - Stability - Style --- Visit us at glfusion.org

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machinari

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I wasn't referring to you in particular Eric. Rather I was making very general statements about the recent negativity surrounding the devs seeming lack of action on a number of issues--not just the theme, which I do think is very well done.
...and the question: "why don't I have an answer?" is there (I don't recall the exact wording). It just wasn't made by you and my intent wasn't to suggest that it was made by you, but to refer the negative bits in general.
It's just frustrating to see the complaints, not even constructive very often, when I see these guys doing a better job than I think the majority of us would do and they have been significantly more dedicated than we have yet to prove ourselves to be, a few outstanding contributors notwithstanding. It simply unfair to talk "at" the devs that way as if somehow any of us has the right to expect our stuff to be included in the core just cuz it's good or that we should be considered for dev-hood just cuz we've contributed a million and one bug fixes. I'm beginning to generalize again I know... I'll just stop...

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machinari

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Quote by: geiss

how does duplicating content on another GL site help the main project?

sorry, that's not at all what I meant. I simply meant to display the benefits of good pr/copywriting by taking the current content and rewriting/rearranging, etc., in order to show the devs what it could look like, as an example (just like you're already doing with the theme). perhaps they would say, "Wow! Let's do that." I didn't mean to imply that there should be 2 active gl sites....

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drshakagee

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Blue links make my cry.
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pinkponk

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Quote by: geiss

Hi all,

I've started working on a new theme, and would like your feedback. Please take a look at http://geiss.getmyip.com/gl141 and give me your thoughts. At the moment, it is based on GL v1.4.1, but potentially, this could be a candidate for a replacement to the professional theme in the next release of Geeklog (if the core devs give their blessing :wink: )

Thx!

Eric 'Geiss' Warren


how install this theme?
I use the dictionary

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geiss

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To give everyone an update, I'm currently running this theme off of Geeklog v1.5 CVS, and there have been some exciting developments:

1- The theme is now tableless, and uses divs for rendering the main layout. This is possible due to Oliver's hard work on 1.5, and it is much appreciated. Big Grin

2- If you have been following the geeklog-devel mail archives, you'll see that a couple of the core devs have given their vote to include this theme in the 1.5 release. Yay! :chestslam:

So now the hard work really begins! What can you do to help? I'm glad you asked! Mr. Green Visit http://geiss.getmyip.com/gl15/ (note the difference now from the previous /gl141/ url) and poke around. I am hosting it from my home pc at the moment, so no guarantees on up-time. Any and all feedback is welcome.

Please note that differences in GL 1.5 and 1.4.1 dictate that the 1.4.1 version use a table to achieve the main layout. I didn't want to mislead anyone on that. I am still considering releasing the theme as a 1.4.1 version, since a beta of GL1.5 is still a little bit out (read the geeklog-devel mail archives for the latest info on that front). My thought was to polish up the 1.4.1 version a bit, and then get it out the door in a week or so.

So please continue to sound off with your ideas! Let's make this thing really shine!

Thx!

Eric
Synergy - Stability - Style --- Visit us at glfusion.org

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pinkponk

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Quote by: geiss

To give everyone an update, I'm currently running this theme off of Geeklog v1.5 CVS, and there have been some exciting developments:

1- The theme is now tableless, and uses divs for rendering the main layout. This is possible due to Oliver's hard work on 1.5, and it is much appreciated. Big Grin

2- If you have been following the geeklog-devel mail archives, you'll see that a couple of the core devs have given their vote to include this theme in the 1.5 release. Yay! :chestslam:

So now the hard work really begins! What can you do to help? I'm glad you asked! Mr. Green Visit http://geiss.getmyip.com/gl15/ (note the difference now from the previous /gl141/ url) and poke around. I am hosting it from my home pc at the moment, so no guarantees on up-time. Any and all feedback is welcome.

Please note that differences in GL 1.5 and 1.4.1 dictate that the 1.4.1 version use a table to achieve the main layout. I didn't want to mislead anyone on that. I am still considering releasing the theme as a 1.4.1 version, since a beta of GL1.5 is still a little bit out (read the geeklog-devel mail archives for the latest info on that front). My thought was to polish up the 1.4.1 version a bit, and then get it out the door in a week or so.

So please continue to sound off with your ideas! Let's make this thing really shine!

Thx!

Eric


i"m have a geeklog 1.4.1
where i give 1.5 or greater?
I use the dictionary

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geiss

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Quote by: pinkponk


i"m have a geeklog 1.4.1
where i give 1.5 or greater?



Geeklog 1.5 hasn't been released yet. I will release this theme for Geeklog 1.4.1 in a week or two. Big Grin

Thx!

Eric
Synergy - Stability - Style --- Visit us at glfusion.org

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pinkponk

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Quote by: geiss

Quote by: pinkponk


i"m have a geeklog 1.4.1
where i give 1.5 or greater?



Geeklog 1.5 hasn't been released yet. I will release this theme for Geeklog 1.4.1 in a week or two. Big Grin

Thx!

Eric


dont relase, i cant istal 1.5
better create a new theme
are you have an icq?
I use the dictionary

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geiss

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This thread was started before the Themes forum was created (I think). It would probably be best to move it to that forum. If a Moderator could do that, it'd be great. Feel free to delete this post when complete.

Thx!

Eric
Synergy - Stability - Style --- Visit us at glfusion.org

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pinkponk

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Quote by: geiss

This thread was started before the Themes forum was created (I think). It would probably be best to move it to that forum. If a Moderator could do that, it'd be great. Feel free to delete this post when complete.

Thx!

Eric


Help me to establish g2image please
I use the dictionary

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geiss

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Quote by: pinkponk


Help me to establish g2image please



That's a little off topic in this thread. Big Grin

I suggest asking for additional help in the thread you already started.

Thx!

Eric
Synergy - Stability - Style --- Visit us at glfusion.org

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pinkponk

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Quote by: geiss

Quote by: pinkponk


Help me to establish g2image please



That's a little off topic in this thread. Big Grin

I suggest asking for additional help in the thread you already started.

Thx!

Eric



Can then you will help to establish your theme?
I use the dictionary

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