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GL Mythbusters, Episode 1


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CavemanJoe

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Registered: 20/09/06
Posts: 41
Location:Cheshire, England
Quote by: Headless

Its nice to see you are so happy.
I guess the multitude of unhappy ones do not bother or care to speak.



The same could be said for the happy ones too. Smile


Which even if negative on the outside would have been a positive impetus
for a forward thrust of GL.

Pardon me for asking but Since you are so successful with GL can you kindly let me know :
1) How as admin you can put or change the name of an author or create "more" link for online users ?


...what?


2) How you allow users to upload image or media with their stories or allow them to edit/delete comments
[ 1 , 2 being very basic just like inbox + compose is basic in any email ]


I don't.


3) How you allow users to add "favorit authors/friends" or form their own groups ?

Probably you need none or do you want to have a taste of those features ?[/p]


Aye, you're right. I need neither of the two features you mentioned (the first, I didn't understand). If I need to do something that isn't the accepted norm of what Geeklog's supposed to do, I find GL very easy to hack into submission.

They may not always be well-documented, but if anyone is having a problem with them, they can always ask on the geeklog-devel list.


THIS is a problem. A mailing list? What? Can we have a forum, or a wiki, or something? Can I have an address that I can go to, to look at this stuff?
Silly browser RPG: improbableisland.com!

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Dirk

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Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 13073
Location:Stuttgart, Germany
Quote by: CavemanJoe

THIS is a problem. A mailing list? What? Can we have a forum, or a wiki, or something? Can I have an address that I can go to, to look at this stuff?


Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer mailing lists over forums for most "serious" stuff.

Anyway, it's not like we're hiding the existence of the mailing lists: About the Geeklog mailing lists.

The plugin developer's guide I linked to above is also in the wiki. The wiki thing hasn't worked quite as well for us as we had hoped, but if you'd like to leave anything there, be our guest.

bye, Dirk

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jmucchiello

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Registered: 29/08/05
Posts: 985
Quote by: Dirk

Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer mailing lists over forums for most "serious" stuff.

The only benefit mailing lists have is they can be immediate. Although with RSS feeds, that isn't really a unique feature for them. A forum structure makes it easier to look up and make reference to threads of discussion. They are the modern day newsgroup and newsgroups* were always superior to email for serious discussions.

* I mean dedicated private nntp servers, not something running over Usenet.
The plugin developer's guide I linked to above is also in the wiki. The wiki thing hasn't worked quite as well for us as we had hoped, but if you'd like to leave anything there, be our guest.
As soon as someone gives me a login to the wiki, I'll consider it.

Headless

Anonymous
@CavemanJoe
> The same could be said for the happy ones too

Probably not, we could have got a reflection at
http://www.packtpub.com/2007-open-source-cms-award-finalists

> ..what?
>I don't.

Thats great. But I do !

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jmucchiello

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Posts: 985
Quote by: Headless

Probably not, we could have got a reflection at
http://www.packtpub.com/2007-open-source-cms-award-finalists

I've never heard of that website. In fact, why would I care about a book publisher's "best of CMS" awards? There is no reason for me to ever go to that website. All that says is that those finalists are popular among people who buy books about CMS systems. So what? I wouldn't expect to find anything beyond a wiki for documentation of a CMS system and I assume most CMS systems are such moving targets that a book would become outdated before is saw print.

Headless

Anonymous
Neither do I care about any book, book publisher or any award.
But I do care about modern ways of cms, how lightweight yet robust new systems can be
and how they can cater to a wide variety of needs.
It does not harm to download and test and compare, and if felt necssary get inspired ! Big Grin

Headless

Anonymous
Incidentally, it appears that either you do not follow these forums regularly
:rtfm: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=5&showtopic=68632
or you tell ;bout your ignorance only when you choose a person selectively Rolling Eyes

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jmucchiello

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Registered: 29/08/05
Posts: 985
Quote by: Headless

Incidentally, it appears that either you do not follow these forums regularly
:rtfm: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=5&showtopic=68632
or you tell ;bout your ignorance only when you choose a person selectively Rolling Eyes

I don't read the "sites" subforums. So yeah, I'm selective. What's your point?

Headless

Anonymous
@ Dirk
Cool down, sir !
I was talking about good hooks/apis that can attract
good developers - that they are not attracted and the number
is dwindling is enough proof. You missed the point "good"
Compare the url you gave with this http://api.drupal.org/api/5 and http://api.drupal.org/api/group/hooks/5
Please !

> php5 - running on php5 is one thing and optimzing your code for
php5
or planning a roadmap for this is a different thing.
I wish at least some one read carefully what I wrote !
Please see this http://gophp5.org/

@ the other poster
>Also users can upload images if they have story.edit rights.
For all other decent and logical cms-es, and particularly in this media dominated
web age, users need no special rights to attach image.


If you wish to answer by logic, please answer !

Headless

Anonymous
In my above post addressed at Dirk
I was originally referring to what I find ??removed mysteriously !

Dirk wrote to me :
What the heck are you talking about? .... please stop talking of things you clearly know nothing about

To the best of my knowledge, I did not speak about anything I do not know !

Dirk's full post :
Ok, I'll bite: What the heck are you talking about? We have quite a few hooks and APIs in Geeklog. They may not always be well-documented, but if anyone is having a problem with them, they can always ask on the geeklog-devel list.
And "no roadmap to go to PHP5"? Geeklog runs just fine on PHP 5 - no need for any roadmap ...
That you're missing a few features here and there is fine, but please stop talking of things you clearly know nothing about ...

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Dirk

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Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 13073
Location:Stuttgart, Germany
Quote by: Headless

@ DirkI was talking about good hooks/apis that can attract
good developers


What's a "good" API? The one we have works, it's easy enough to use, so what's your point?

Geeklog's core code is something like 7 years old by now so of course we don't use the latest and greatest technologies (yet) - but that won't stop anyone from extending Geeklog through our existing APIs.


Quote by: Headless

optimzing your code for
php5
or planning a roadmap for this is a different thing


That's marketing speak and doesn't mean anything. What is there to "optimize" for PHP 5?

FWIW, the upcoming 1.5 release will, for the first time, include a feature that requires PHP 5 to work (the webservices API), mainly because parsing XML is so much easier in PHP 5. There it made sense to require a certain PHP version. For the majority of Geeklog's codebase, it doesn't.

bye, Dirk

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Dirk

Site Admin
Admin
Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 13073
Location:Stuttgart, Germany
Quote by: jmucchiello

As soon as someone gives me a login to the wiki, I'll consider it.


Anyone can get a wiki account easily ...

bye, Dirk

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1000ideen

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Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 1294
Concerning this: http://www.packtpub.com/2007-open-source-cms-award-finalists I`d like to point you to 2 things. Please see how IBM chose "CMS" as demonstration for customers:

This is the overview: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/osource/implement.html
This is the "Comparison of content management solutions" http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/library/i-osource1/#N1014F

As you can see the small number of compared CMS it is a bit strange ...

The other thing is the overall meaning of this. Geeklog`s quality and developement state is similar to Drupal. To me it shows that Geeklog is not "visible" enough. It does not meant that Geeklog is no good.

Headless

Anonymous
@ Dirk

>What's a "good" API?
>What is there to "optimize" for PHP 5?

You answer it yourself :
we don't use the latest and greatest technologies
- may be the think-tank should be tickled to wonder
why not, when others can

@1000ideen

> Geeklog`s quality and developement state is similar to Drupal

Not at all ! More kbs of code, more theme files to manage,
no universal comment engine
for all types of nodes ( including forum ) though I beleive it
was there in Dirk's site. GL lacks system and logic when
you compare to Drupal.

As years fly by you cannot just sit and be slow to update
your core. PHP4 has now been discarded, and PHP6 is on the horizon
which discards register global etc.
Unless the acts are tightened now ...... .....

tokyoahead

Anonymous
Quote by: Headless

@ Dirk
no universal comment engine


how many engines did you find? I see only one that allows all the comments in any place for GL.
The plugin authors are of course free to use it if they want. It is not GL's duty to force plugin devs to use the API.
If I would write tomorrow a module for drupal that uses its own engine, we are at the same state.

Quote by: Headless

@ Dirk
As years fly by you cannot just sit and be slow to update
your core. PHP4 has now been discarded, and PHP6 is on the horizon
which discards register global etc.
Unless the acts are tightened now ...... .....



PHP4 is still supported at this point in time. How can you blame someone for still supporting it? We made a clear decision on the dev mailing list to go with the gophp5 movement as soon as it was announced. You are expecting us to jump ahead of that? Is Drupal doing this? You expect GL and drupal to repleace all code that could be different in PHP5 code to be updated within the next version?

Finally I come back to my initial Mythbusters-posting:
I am, as a core-developer, not here to copy Drupal or to write code just to make one trolling anonymous annoyed and headless forum-poster happy. I am not here to write code for GL that is making it better in my eyes as I see it necessary. If anyone thinks that different things are necessary, they are welcome to contribute code or at least suggest concrete changes in a acceptable and formal way. It is no wonder that things that no-one ever asked for do not get implemented, even if other projects have that single feature.

Those wo want to sit at the keyboard to complain, and simply accuse the core team of beeing ignorant to the great movements of programming or other systems may continue to do so. Others, who kindly contribute and are able to submit more of their code than their ego, are always welcome. We are working people who try hard to make GL better in their little spare time. Help us doing so in a productive manner with suggestions or code. Everything else is trolling the forums.

Headless

Anonymous
LOL

Who is trolling ? I think by this time I have made
enough posts, supported by logic and links

> how many engines did you find

at least two ! forum comments can be edited, story comments cannot be
by the user.

> ...

no one has asked any one to copy drupal, asking for a visible roadmap
is not asking to "jump" and if you read these forums you will find
many necessary things asked by many never got implemeted.
also, suggestions and discussions are not complaints neither trolls Big Grin

By this time, there is sufficient material in this thread to form
one's own opinion 8)

Headless

Anonymous

> Is Drupal doing this?

yes -> http://drupal.org/gophp5



> concrete suggestions :

HERE they are :

- download and make a cursory comparative study of drupal, e107, xoops [+- plone ]
- plan how more php5 codes can be used + code base size can be reduced
- less numbered and more planned theme files
- admin ability to change authorname, choose how many comments per page,
how many online users to show before a "more who are online" link appears etc etc
- universal comment system that allows users to edit ( and delete ) comments
that appears uniform all over the site including forums
- once guest books were enough, then came cms-es and blogs and snw
so atleast ( if not in core itself ) have immedaite core plugins or core-inclusive
per user blog + ability of user to form his own community or group
- ability of users to submit image along with text for story without any extra thing being done by admin
- ability of users to mark favorit authors or favorit posts

All these features have been asked repeatedly in this site over many months and many years ... you can do a thorough search as it appears you are very new to GL ( I apologize sincerely if I am wrong )
Most cms-es offer these out of box or as core plugins, and their developers are also mostly hobbyists and part time coders with families, yet they have a swelling developer / contributor community ( instead of dwindling one at GL - see older mod / plugin pages here to see what I mean )

Even if certain posts make you feel uncomfortable/angry/attacking etc try to see through the lines :
if there is substance accept it gracefully Big Grin

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1000ideen

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Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 1294
IMHO this looks more like a personal wishlist than a Geeklog rescue plan.

Why don`t you discuss each of them in a separate thread? There are many people here who could help you. I already gave a hint on how to change the name of an author.

I started comparing many CMS or rather looked for opinions on them to find those which may be really worthwhile the effort of comparing. Have read this: On e107 http://drupal.org/node/107882 on Xoops http://drupal.org/node/184455#comment-282199

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CavemanJoe

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Registered: 20/09/06
Posts: 41
Location:Cheshire, England
A cursory comparative study of other engines - those engines already exist, man. If people want a site that does XYZ, they'll use engine XYZ, which is perfectly geared-up towards such a usage. What's the benefit to Geeklog in duplicating already-existing functionality? Shouldn't we be trying to make something new, instead?

GL already runs just fine on PHP5.

Comments displayed by page would be nice, I guess. Never saw the need myself, but I guess some people might find it useful.

There does need to be tighter integration between the forum and the rest of the site - it'd be nicer if a user's forum posts were shown in his/her bio page, and it'd be nice also if there was an option for story comments to increment a user's forum post count. This is probably something to talk to the creators of the Forum plugin about.

Regarding user blogs and groups - I think it's a neat idea, and something that's been tried in the past with the Journal plugin, and perhaps something that should be tried again. But to be honest, if I want a site that does that sort of stuff, I'd use a different CMS. For me, Geeklog has always been primarily a very flexible blog engine, like WordPress for people who know their arses from their elbows.

User-submitted images with blog posts - I'm pretty sure there's a sound reason, security-wise, why this isn't enabled by default.

Favourite authors/posts - why? How would this enrich the user experience? Does BoingBoing have that functionality?

I think my biggest gripe with Geeklog right now is geeklog.net, which looks outdated and has usability issues. Outdated in that, aesthetically, it looks like a site from the mid-90's, and usability issues meaning:

REAL LIFE
To see what's going on behind the scenes at Geeklog:
1. Go to Geeklog.net
2. Click on "Mailing Lists" -> takes you to http://www.geeklog.net/faqman/index.php?op=view&t=15
3. Click on "Geeklog-Devel" -> takes you to http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel
4. Click on "geeklog-devel-archives" -> takes you to http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/
5. Look for a search box
6. Do this: :doh:
7. Sigh heavily, click on the "Thread" link next to "October", which takes you to http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-October/thread.html
8. Do this again: :doh:
9: Accidentally stumble across THIS, proclaim to the Heavens "WHY THE HELL HAVE I ONLY JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS."
10. Rejoice.

MAXIMUM NUMBER OF STEPS THE USER EXPECTS:
1. Go to Geeklog.net
2. Click on "What's going on with Geeklog 1.5"
3. Click on "Subscribe to RSS"
4. Rejoice.

THE IDEAL THAT THE USER EXPECTS:
1. Go to Geeklog.net
2. Rejoice.
Silly browser RPG: improbableisland.com!

Headless

Anonymous
> study of other engines - those engines already exist

They exist on part of GL developers / posters here ?? where ? how ?? !!!!!

> Shouldn't we be trying to make something new, instead?

Only when we have met the basic needs Smile
such as admin's ability to limit number of comments to 'n'/page or
users ability to edit a comment,
and what are the new things you opine can be done ?

> Favourite authors/posts - why? How would this enrich the user experience?

Marking posts lets you come back to what you want as well as let other's
see those, same about favorit authors - it has viral effect, that is the way
the web is moving Smile You may have no need or may ignore, but MANY
actually need ( rss / email subs is not subsitute for this )

> GL already runs just fine on PHP5.
That is not the issue. You may see how php5 can help - though the article is about WP
http://funkatron.com/index.php/site/what-matt-mullenweg-doesnt-know-about-php5-and-how-it-hurts-him-and-his-use/

> I think my biggest gripe with Geeklog right now is geeklog.net, which looks outdated

A site reflects the core it runs - if you understand what I mean.

>User-submitted images with blog posts - I'm pretty sure there's a sound reason, security-wise, why this isn't enabled

If I remember correctly Blaine and others were at loss of logic when pressed on this issue
years ago - an user can submit image / edit it with his profile page, that does not cause
security issues ?
Any logic please ?

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