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jmucchiello

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Quote by: Laugh

jmucchiello what is your schedule here? Have you started or are you waiting until the pledges are collected or until your schedule opens up. Also, what is your ROUGH estimate of a time line to getting something for testing, as example, 20 hours in 1 week or 20 hours spread over a month.

I actually can't say. I expect there to spurts of great activity and then droughts of nothing. Over the course of the whole thing it will probably average 10 hours a week. But there's nothing I can put a schedule to.

I've started mocking up the entry screen for recurring events but there's nothing there yet. I do plan to make the recurring period extensible so I can just code something like weekly. Get everything working around weekly events and then start adding in the weirder ones. This way, if someone has an event that's only on third wednesday of months whose names ends in 'y', they can just code the extension themselves.
Maybe 3 of the people who have time and who have made some of the larger pledges (they have more at stake) would like to take control of the requested features list. When any 2 says all features have been implemented, are bug free, and Dirk OK's the code, then the bounty can be paid.

That reminds me. I'm going to turn the feature list into a set of bullet points so I can arrange them in a better order. Currently there are three big chunks and that will make it hard to determine if it's finished or not. The purpose of the list is to not forget anything. Stuff like: mssql supprt (and hopefully we have someone around who can test that), mbyte support, etc. I'll go through the original posts and followups to come up with a hopefully complete list. This will give me a guide and a way to say I'm xx% done.
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ronack

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I'm going to play devils advocate here, what happens if the resulting product doesn't live up to expectations? Who will own and support the product? Some have elected to put up more money than others, do their requested features take priority? Will there be an agreement between the writers of Geeklog and the writer/s of the Calendar Plugin? Will this be available to all or just to those who pay?

Just wondering,


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tt0ne

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Hey Guys,

Based on the schedule we've decided to look for an alternative. For some reason I was under the impression that development was picked up and being worked on. JM was kind enough to point me to his posts about how he was going to start working on it around the end of year... I feel stupid for somehow missing that.

So I want to withdraw my pledge on behalf of HSdotcom...

I do hope the whole "bounty" concept does take off and become more organized - I see huge potential. I think we need more leadership from the development team - but as we all know - they already are probably so taxed with work in other areas we should all be thankful.

Warmly,

- Marco
HeavenlySanctuary.com - "Surf The Innernet!"
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jmucchiello

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Dude, I said I'm starting in August and hope to finish by the end of the year. But withdraw if you want.

ttone: Most of the big doners are in for all 3 features so I don't see how they can "take priority".

As for support, well, if the changes aren't folded into Geeklog core, I don't know. I'll support it like I support anything else on these boards. Look around, I post a lot.
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Laugh

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All features listed in the 3 posts well make it into the final product.

We hope to incorporate it into the current geeklog calendar and it will use the same license agreement as Geeklog (therefore free to all). If Dirk decides agains't this (I don't see why he would) then it will be spun into a new plugin.

jmucchiello will be there to support it and I am sure others (like myself) can help out.

If the product doesn't live up to expectations? Well that is why we are currently voting to see who wants to take on the job of making sure that the Feature Requested makes it in and works properly. There first job would be to review jmucchiello new feature bullet list (when it is done) to make sure everything is in there and that jmucchiello understands exactly what we want. The best people for this job would be the people who pledged the most money. Tex has volunteered and I said I would help out with this if no one else steps in (I think it's best to have 2 or 3 people help with this). The bounty only gets paid once the feature requests are met (which is decided by these 2 or 3 people).

tt0ne are you moving on? jmucchiello has started but, it may take to the end of the year to add in all the features. If he has moved on, we need someone else to hold the money if DIrk will not do it, any takers?

Quote by: ronack

I'm going to play devils advocate here, what happens if the resulting product doesn't live up to expectations? Who will own and support the product? Some have elected to put up more money than others, do their requested features take priority? Will there be an agreement between the writers of Geeklog and the writer/s of the Calendar Plugin? Will this be available to all or just to those who pay?

Just wondering,



One of the Geeklog Core Developers.
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ronack

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I know that sometimes a conflict arises when people get paid to develop specific software as to who owns it. When someone in a corporation develops something it belongs to the corporation. When an individual develops something it belongs to the individual. However when a freelance developer creates something for someone the lines get a little blurry. There needs to be a conscientious here.

I know developers who have spent many hours only to have their ideas or even the entire software stolen from them. My users have a piece of software that they use that was never paid for and has no support because the company elected to not pay the individual who developed it. The developer of the software works for the company but refuses to support it. I know another lady who had a company sign non disclosure agreements before letting them demo her software. They elected not to go with her software only to turn around a bring out their own which was exactly like hers only with their name on it.

Bottom line is, not all parties have good intentions when you start putting $$$$$ in the mix, things change. However in saying that I think the GL community for the most part are good folks. As long as this is written under the Open Source GNU GPL I think we're good. Which most Geeklog plugins are done under.

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
of the License, or (at your option) any later version.

As far as support goes, under the same GNU GPL it's the community that will support it along with the developer. Am I wrong?

Also the Calendar is no longer part of the core it's now a plugin which is the whole reason for this.
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samstone

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Sorry guys, I have to withdraw my pledge because I am confused with this Bounty mechanism. I hope Dirk or someone from the GL core team would join in and guide us through the process.

Thanks for your effort to bring the project so far!

Sam


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Tex

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Why withdraw? The coder was clear that we should sit tight until he had something to show. At that point things would get serious. In the meantime, we could develop a safe way to collect the funds so that all coders would know we are serious. Let's not get jittery when it is so unecessary.
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jmucchiello

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As far as support goes, under the same GNU GPL it's the community that will support it along with the developer. Am I wrong?
The calendar plugin is currently GPL so of course my changes would also be GPL. What's the issue here?
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jmucchiello

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Quote by: samstone

Sorry guys, I have to withdraw my pledge because I am confused with this Bounty mechanism. I hope Dirk or someone from the GL core team would join in and guide us through the process.

Can you explain why someone in the GL core is needed to guide us? And could you explain why you are confused? In the history of Geeklog the core team has accepted and paid exactly one bounty and it didn't involve as many participants as this bounty. It's not like they have any more answers than the various posters here on this thread. While it would be nice for more people to be involved we can't force them to participate any more than we can force you not to withdraw.

At the moment there are a group of people who've pledged to pay someone to provide some features. When those features exist, hopefully those who've pledge will pay. The purpose of this thread is to collect those pledges in one place. You don't have to participate in that. Hold your money as long as you like.

The geeklog bounty "system" is still in its infancy. There is no bounty procedure yet. This is why there is a lack of direction. But we'll muddle through and eventually there will be a procedure. If you can't work with that, that is your decision.
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LWC

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I know it's way easier said than done, but maybe it's time Geeklog turned into an offcial non profit organization. That way it could have a merchant account for free (except giving some % from each donation to their gateway). Then the donators would just go to a secure page and give out their credit card numbers and get invoices in return. Hmm, yet if jmucchiello can't give them back invoices, it would be a problem (how can an organization officially pay a private person?).

Of course, seeing that Dirk isn't so active here lately, I don't see him taking such a big step.
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Dazzy

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I think the biggest problem at the moment is the confusion caused by the licensing issue raised which you have cleared up, Geeklog needs a calender as default weather it be in its current status or an improved status.

Maybe whats needed is a private area where the ones who have pledged, the core team and JM can discuss this in private and not have everyone throwing their two cents in and confusing matters further.

From what i see now pledges have went down by $400 just because it has become a little confusing, I too thought it was yesterday.

I presume you run a geeklog site JM, create a private forum and invite all those by pm's over that originally pledged this may help remove some of the confusion being caused by this thread.
Dazzy
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jmucchiello

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Well unfortunately $400 down puts the project below my $600 minimum to do the project. So unless folks recommit to the changes, all is lost. I'll leave it on my schedule for now but at the moment (and will come up with my project roadmap I promised earlier) but I won't actually be doing any coding until the bounty reaches my minimum again.

Well, that's not entirely true. I'll probably work on the stuff I wanted to do for myself. But that's not a big part of the bounty.
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Laugh

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Ackk, this ship is sinking fast! Cry

ttone, samstone I hope you change your minds. Your not going to find anything better, that integrates as well into Geeklog and that will be supported, (unless you spend a lot more money).

Licensing Issues (GPL, same as before) and the timelines (start in Aug, hope completed by end of year) have been explained. What else do you have issues with?
One of the Geeklog Core Developers.
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Tex

Anonymous
jmucchiello:

I had hoped we could take your advice and just sit tight, but I suspected if we waited too long, some of us would get cold feet. I also suspect if they could see the calendar and know it will work, then they would pay. The interest seems high enough. Perhaps you might consider doing the work, presenting it on your website, and then let us do the bounty thing. You hold onto it until we come up with the minimum.

Guys - Rolling Eyes I really don't see the problem here. Its not like anyone is being dishonest. The only reason we are even having an issue here is because we all wish to be aboveboard, fair, and not careless, and are trying hard to make this work. Why not be willing to hang in there and help us work it out? JM has gone so far as to be willing to do the coding without the money, trusting that we are going to pay. I think if he is going to do that, the least we can do is work out a way to contribute the money safely, to demonstrate that he will not be wasting his time.
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Dirk

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It would be a pity if this wouldn't work out just because I was hesitant in my earlier comment on this topic. :shock:

To me, this looks like the perfect opportunity to spin off the plugin into a separate project. Looking at the feature list, there's no way this could have been accomplished under Geeklog's umbrella. And I certainly don't feel qualified to ensure that all those will be implemented as described - that's something the community, i.e. all you who contributed in this thread, can do much better.

So if the main problem here is to find someone to hold on to the money until the above-mentioned community gives a "thumbs up" and you're not finding anyone else, then I guess I could do that.

bye, Dirk
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jmucchiello

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Quote by: Tex

jmucchiello:

I had hoped we could take your advice and just sit tight, but I suspected if we waited too long, some of us would get cold feet. I also suspect if they could see the calendar and know it will work, then they would pay. The interest seems high enough. Perhaps you might consider doing the work, presenting it on your website, and then let us do the bounty thing. You hold onto it until we come up with the minimum.

I'm considering doing that. But I don't at that point want to sound like jerk because I'm holding the code hostage. Like the bounties themselves, it's an annoying catch-22.
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ronack

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If I was better at PHP and MySQL I'd do it just for the fun of it. In fact I'm considered starting to work on it for myself. Of course I'd make it available to everyone but I fear what I would turn out would be rather crude.

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jmucchiello

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Quote by: ronack

I'd make it available to everyone

The goal was always to release the finished project to everybody. The point of the bounty is to give someone (in this case me) a reason to spend time programming it.

I have lots of other things I could be working on. The bounty just changes my immediate priorities. That's just me. If someone else wants to program it on their own, with or without the bounty, more power to them.
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machinari

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why not do a ransom type plugin. Develop the plugin, then hold it for ransom. When your minimum is reached, then release the plugin. People would probably give up some cash quicker if they knew the code was already good to go.
It's the same thing really. You just don't have to listen to all this pledge back and forth stuff.
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