Subject: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 12/10/07 03:00am
By: Anonymous

Due to recent discussions in this forum here:

http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=78733

Myth No.1: "Geeklog is worse than [x] because they do not have a start-page for non-geeks"
So lets have a look at it, what is Geeklog? Geeklog is - as it says - a "Geek's Log". So it is not like Mozilla. Other teams might have some geeks in their team. We have _only_ geeks. The rest of the other teams are politicians, salespeople and marketing. We do not have a marketing team. We do not have a designer at hand. We are happy we have a logo! What a shame of course. But we do not have all of this. Does that make the CMS worse? No. Does it make it less accessible? Maybe. Probably some people feel turned away because of this. But to be honest, the features of Geeklog are as such (just take the permissions) that a non-geek might have serious trouble getting through it. I had trouble when I tried to understand it the first time. But still ... if someone would come and say "hey guys, I like your software, I cannot code, but I can make a great intro-site for non-geeks, I am sure I would pay the domain, probably the webspace and make sure that we get that running.

Conclusion: Confirmed, but ready to change, just throw ressources at us please, while we code!

Myth No 2: "Geeklog is loosing users because everyone thinks its dead! No-one knows when the next version comes out, nobody knows what features it will have!"
Well we are geeks but at the same time employees, fathers, husbands etc, we have other things to do than to market our own work by writing a blog on what we are currently working on. We are a small team. Look how many people contributed the majority of code to the last version 1.4.1.
I normally announce in the dev-list what I am about to do next as soon as I think it will take a certain time to complete and ask for input. But as people stated correctly, we do not write up what we expect to have in the next version. Why? Because we do not know. We never sit together in a conference and discuss this. I personally prefer to tell what I have done instead of telling what I will do since saying what I will do might be as well a weather forecast. Many things that I tried to do in code in the past turned out to be impossible. So is geeklog loosing people because of this? Well I have never ever installed a software because of what it might have in the future. I look how active the forum is. I look if the last release or bugfix was more than 2 years ago. I look if there were significant improvements in the last release.

Conclusion: Plausible for some, busted for the majority.

Myth No 3. "Geeklog has a too long release cycle!"
Personally I would like to see all features that are in CVS already since some time live. But on the other hand, I _hate_ upgrading my websites. There are too many files, settings, things I forgot, hacks etc to watch out for. In addition to that, many other people complain if the version are released too quickly. That is also one reason why we have plugins, so other people can release new versions w/o the core code to be pushed out too often. So if you think its slow, you might not represent the majority of the users.

Conslusion: Plausible for some, busted for the majority.

Myth No. 4 "The Core team is a Gentlmen's Club that does not let other people in"
What? Sure, Confirmed, only because I LOVE beeing in clubs! Mr. Green
Well, I admit that we do not have a sign on the door that says "Core developers wanted". But we do have a mailing list and a forum where we talk to many developers. But finally, we are people who work together. And we have to get along. If we do not get along, GL goes nowhere. So if people want to become core developers, there are many criteria. You have to write code that is applicable for many, not just for you. You have to show that you write code that fits the coding standards both in quality as we as in style. You have to have a style of communication that everybody in the core team is comfortable with. You have to stick to announcements and promises and to a certain degree to timelines as they are announced. If one of those fail in the eyes of one of the core team or maybe more, you better start forking.
Why that is like that? Because many cooks spoil the code. And only the amount of fixes I have to do to user-contributed code is enough to make me think to stop doing it. Other core devs are already angry at me once a month because of the mistakes I make in my own code, so I rahter care about that. Only the list of things still amiss in the gloogle summer of code projects that make a "perfect system" out of a "well-working code" show where the issues are. Read the dev-list and you know what I am talking about.
Finally, you can ask "Can I be a core guy" and get a straight answer. You can ask "why not" and might receive none at all. I wonder how many people who ask you "can we date/be friends/work together" get a straight, honest, and _written_ answer from you. We do this here because we like it. If we are stressed out by someone asking in a rude way why this or that does not exist or does not work, we do not have the impression if it gets more fun when this person becomes a core dev.
I also wonder how many other teams in the same size handle that differently. And what their turnover in team members are. Finally all mistakes in the code have to be reset by Dirk and not the person who messed it up. And to that note, the last person who got kicked out because there was simply too much to clean up after was a girl. So we had a girl as a core dev, just not for a long time. One last question is why we need more core developers? If we have trouble today coming up with a planned featurelist for the next release, how can that become better if more people contribute code? The people who want to become core devs just want to see their own code in the core. They do not want to join because they want to write documentation of existing code, manuals or other things that are good to have besides the code. So it only become more complicated with more coders.

Conclusion: Busted. Just because we dont roll out the red carpet for you, does not mean we are elitist asocial women-hating selfindulged bastards.

Myth No. 5 "Geeklog is a Sellout because Blaine posted that NexPro article on the frontpage".
Well if Dirk or someone else would have posted an article on how Geeklog is becoming bigger because there is another company supporting it and oops - they are selling that product? - well nobody would have cared. People whould have said "wow great, more support/applications/whatever for GL! Now Blaine wrote it... well he is the epxert on the topic so he better write that text. We are not fake enough to write advertorials here. GL is for/from Geeks. Where is my marketing team?? :kickcan:

Conclusion Busted. You sell out if you sell something. GL does not sell anything. We take donations and bounties. Its all in the wording, isn't it? Where was that marketing book again?

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 04:27am
By: Anonymous

> worse than [x] because they do not have a start-page

Who or where says so ???

> Geeklog is - as it says - a "Geek's Log"
RTFOL

>Well we are geeks but at the same time employees,
>fathers, husbands etc, we have other things to do than

So are all developers, coders at drupal, joomla, e107, plone etc


> Geeklog has a too long release cycle!
Geeklog 2 On Indefinite Hold said on September 16 2005 by Tony
Ongoing work, if any, with 1.4x series has no meaning as it is old
even does not support many important mods/plugins

> Geeklog is a Sellout

Did any one say "sellout" ? Its a question of ethics to throw
it on first page.
No harm in selling any product but then will all the smaller
and small and moderate contibutors get their share of money
who carried GL so far and contributed so far ???

:rtfm: Conclusion : To everyone her/his own conclusion, always Big Grin

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 04:33am
By: Anonymous

Dear Tokyohead,

Brevity is an art essential to "geeks"
Please talk less [ frame your opinion in lesser words ]
if you want to drive your point home :wink:

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 04:52am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: Headless

Dear Tokyohead,

Brevity is an art essential to "geeks"
Please talk less [ frame your opinion in lesser words ]
if you want to drive your point home :wink:



I am sorry if my post was hard to understand for you. I was writing in longer sentences to make a point to non-geeks, not to geeks. I was hoping that geeks have an understanding what geeklog is/has and why it is what is/has what is is/has.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 05:08am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: vERY ANNOYED

> worse than [x] because they do not have a start-page
Who or where says so ???


GL was criticised for not having a more user-friendly start-page in the aforementioned post, and in the same context compared to other open source projects. I think that is a pretty clear comparative cirticism.

Quote by: vERY ANNOYED


> Geeklog has a too long release cycle!
Geeklog 2 On Indefinite Hold said on September 16 2005 by Tony
Ongoing work, if any, with 1.4x series has no meaning as it is old
even does not support many important mods/plugins


I was referring only to GL1, not to GL2. GL2 obviously cannot have a release cycle since it never had a release. A release cycle starts only after the first release.

Quote by: vERY ANNOYED


> Geeklog is a Sellout
Did any one say "sellout" ? Its a question of ethics to throw it on first page. No harm in selling any product but then will all the smaller and small and moderate contibutors get their share of money who carried GL so far and contributed so far ???


If you think all contributors should get a share of the profits made through the aditional advertising on gl.net, you talk money, not ethics. Also, it is not really a good point to make here. If you contribute code to an open-source project under a GPL license, how can you retrospectively ask for money for that code if there is another project that works on the codebase and makes profit doing so? And if GL.net would get money from Nexpro for the advertising, the coders wont see a bit of it either since the money would go into payment of the hosting or other costs incurred.

Please decide on one argument. Either its money or ethics. And my point is still the same in both cases. If someone else would have reported it, its news, if Blaine writes it, its advertising? I would like to invite other projects that create Geeklog releated software and post their products to the page, and see if they get listed or not. If not, please complain. Otherwise I do not see a point for complaints.

I think those who complain should rather think about what the developers give to make GL happen for all of the community for free instead. If one of the devs gets some collateral advertising through an article that makes the whole community benefit as a whole I think you guys should rather be happy that the core coders get something tangible back instead just complaining anonymously about things lacking in the code.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 06:21am
By: Anonymous

GL has become GL or becomes GL because of multitude
of users contributing their bits of code, more important free time
and free feedback Smile
This mutual non-commercial thing is not covered by any license
and so it is both money and ethics, however little money it may be.

But I see your embarrasment and I see why I should be
rather happy. So I am happy :banana:

>>Longer sentences to make a point to non-geeks, not to geeks

Non-geeks do not need longer sentences, so next time keep
it short and simple. LOL

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 07:42am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: Headless


But I see your embarrasment and I see why I should be rather happy. So I am happy :banana:

>>Longer sentences to make a point to non-geeks, not to geeks
Non-geeks do not need longer sentences, so next time keep it short and simple. LOL



I do not feel any embrassment. Also, you will have to live with my style of writing as long as you read it, if you like it or not.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 08:36am
By: Anonymous

"" I was writing in longer sentences to make a point to non-geeks, not to geeks.""

"" you will have to live with my style of writing as long as you read it, if you like it or not.""


These are two completely different arguments Big Grin Big Grin

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 08:39am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: Headless

"" I was writing in longer sentences to make a point to non-geeks, not to geeks.""

"" you will have to live with my style of writing as long as you read it, if you like it or not.""


These are two completely different arguments Big Grin Big Grin



Of course. They never meant to be the same argument.
The one states why I used the style in the initial article and the other states that however I write, I will not change just because you tell me to do so.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 09:29am
By: Anonymous

IMHO, Do not use then 2 posts to say what can be said in one post :wink:

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 09:35am
By: 1000ideen

#1 I was trying to discuss this here already: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=77286 Finally I designed a page http://geeklog.info/staticpages/index.php/durchstarten and improved it last week. After translating it we may use it here at geeklog.net too.


#2 Hm, before you start loosing users there is a stage which I `d call 'missing chances'.
I`d consider it very helpful to SEE the devs talk here on the forum rather than through an email list. It would make the impression of being eager and really doing work. It would also archieve posts nicely for future reference.

I had also suggested to design a page with all devs on it in an email to the dev mailer on Sat, 21 Jul 2007

My suggestion is to build a team page like this:
http://www.openarchitectureware.org/staticpages/index.php/team
http://www.oscommerce.com/about/team

Yes, I consider this immensely important.

Another step would be to make the coding work visible. When you go to the geeklog site it is hardly visible what is going on actively. The team page should display somehow what the person is doing in that week / month and possibly how someone else could assist (like the summer of code students).


I`m still willed to design such a page if the team likes the idea.


#4 is rather something on motivation. How many points does one have to collect to become a core team member or maybe a moderator of this forum or ... any other 'important' position?

This is a matter of personal motivation and in the long term a good thing for any team. Good to publish rules and to have a sort of sober committee deciding on that.

When I was with Dirk on the FrOSCon we had 2 people approach our stand talking with us about coding. They both had made the experience in their former volunteer work of not being fairly treated. This seems to be a common problem with teams.


#5 I think it is a much more a general question if is it good common sense to advertise / feature a company in a volunteer based project. This had to lead to discussions and I`d appreciate very much to set clear rules for that.
If yes, then it should be done in a neutral journalistic way with more companies e.g. with the bounty givers 'AOE media GmbH' http://www.geeklog.net/article.php/bounties or anybody out of the community doing commercial work.

Off course there could also be an advertising topic 'commercial work by members', why not? It would help separating editorial text from advertising. This is what every good newspaper does.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 09:54am
By: Anonymous

Very good points made, 1000ideen
I agree.

However, I beleive there is a serious attitude probblem as can be seen the way
a moderator is "taking" just in the above posts.

That apart, whether you pay or not pay, whether you create a very homely
atmosphere or a very geeky one, the ROOT problem with GL is its core ....
the way other cms-s have advanced [ see drupal core, for example ]
with definite roadmap + its range of hooks/api energetic developers just not
feel attracted to GL


You can argue and argue with me or be an ostrich
or say "why not develope yourself" or whatever ...
but this is the sad truth.

Before you do anything you need a good, not backdated core
( with gophp5 in mind too ) and a roadmap for a range of modules which are very important
these days ( like per user blog, snw etc )

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 01:35pm
By: 1000ideen

energetic developers just not feel attracted to GL


When a project becomes bigger and bigger growth itself is something to struggle with. It is not an easy task for a team. Chosing a new core developer means also a risk: will he make us drown or dream? The more different that person is the more risky it is. Imagine a worst case: the team splits up into 2 parts like it happened with Mambo. There is a real danger.

Energetic developers feel attracted to energetic CMS. Sober safety minded CMS are looking for similar developers. On the other hand it is always good to have contrarians, they may deliver the best ideas etc. But one thing is for sure, nobody is happy without a team.

So how could an energetic developer approach a sober and safety minded team? How could such a team accept such a developer?

Anybody having some theoretical ideas?

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 01:36pm
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: 1000ideen

#2 Hm, before you start loosing users there is a stage which I `d call 'missing chances'.
I`d consider it very helpful to SEE the devs talk here on the forum rather than through an email list.

They don't really talk on the mailing list either. Things start to get hashed out on the mailing list and then discussion mysteriously stops.
It would make the impression of being eager and really doing work. It would also archieve posts nicely for future reference.
The mailing list is archived. Although they lost a bunch of it in the server move.
Another step would be to make the coding work visible. When you go to the geeklog site it is hardly visible what is going on actively. The team page should display somehow what the person is doing in that week / month and possibly how someone else could assist (like the summer of code students).
Sigh. Yeah, dream a lovely dream.
#4 is rather something on motivation. How many points does one have to collect to become a core team member or maybe a moderator of this forum or ... any other 'important' position?

This is a matter of personal motivation and in the long term a good thing for any team. Good to publish rules and to have a sort of sober committee deciding on that.
This goes back to my philosophy of Geeklog concept. Geeklog is a means to an end for the devs. They use it to sell intranet solutions to businesses. As such it is structured for corporate use. There are people who moderate the site (admins) and there are people who passively use the site's information (employees). No one cares about Fred-from-accounting's views on politics so user blogs and user home pages are just not in Geeklog. Until members of the core team are paid to make social networking websites, social networking functions will never find their way into Geeklog.

That said, I see no reason for the core devs to create committees or a checklist for getting into the core team. The core team isn't big enough to need these things. I don't begrudge them the right to say who is or who isn't a core developer.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 01:37pm
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: 1000ideen

So how could an energetic developer approach a sober and safety minded team? How could such a team accept such a developer?

Anybody having some theoretical ideas?

Well, being an irritant hasn't worked for me. Smile

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 01:55pm
By: Anonymous

>Until members of the core team are paid to make social networking websites, social networking >functions will never find their way into Geeklog

It can be other way round too as it has been for drupal. alycia, elgg ....
Make good solutions ... social networking ... whatever
people will donate , there can be paid services for additional support or service
as well as adverts, as well as prize money like packtpub
and you get paid Smile

Unless we have nothing ... no good hooks/api ... modern developers wont get
attracted ( see how many developers are working free for drupal, e107 etc ) ...
no raodmap to go php5 ... etc etc etc

We also need to prioritize ... are we here to devote our sleepless nights , soak in endless fun named coding as primary ( and money as secondary ) goal or earning = dayjob as our primary goal.

Surely to run a site and cover for bandwidth money is needed ... but that can be achived in various ways eg php.net does and so do many other php cmses.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 02:12pm
By: CavemanJoe

If it'll help to dispel some of the negativity, here's my tuppence'orth:

If you're thinking of setting up a blog, use WordPress. Unless, of course, you have no problem finding your own arse with both hands, in which case you'd have a lot more fun with Geeklog.

I use Geeklog for just about all of my websites, both personal and for clients. I don't use it because I like to know what's going on behind the scenes, or what's happening in future releases, or when those releases are coming, because I don't. I don't use it because there are lots of easily-locatable extensions, all catalogued and sorted on one site, because there aren't. I don't use it because it's easy to handle, because it isn't (this is debatable, see my reference to Joomla! below - if you've ever typed so much as a single line of code, or even if you have basic problem-solving skills, Geeklog is probably the easiest and most intuitive engine to use, but if you're a total spork then it's gonna be way over your head). I don't use it because there's a free hosting service like there is for WordPress, because there isn't (well, there's this one, but oddly enough, nobody's taken me up on this yet). I don't use it because it looks good, because it certainly doesn't (can we PLEASE have a new default theme? If I make a couple of nice default themes with colour variations, possibly based on something looking a bit like the one I've used for retroreviews.net, what are my chances of having them included in the next release?).

I use Geeklog because it's absolutely bleeding-edge. I use it because it ties in nicely with other sites (the Remote Authentication feature had me squirming and giggling like a schoolgirl). I use it because it doesn't patronise me (to create a menu item in Geeklog, open up the block and type in a link - Joomla!, on the other hand, says "No, no, I'll do that for you," and then puts you through a bewildering array of HALF :banghead: A :banghead: DOZEN :banghead: menu screens so that it can determine what you want and then implement something a bit like it without you ever having to use those funny pointy brackets). I use it because it doesn't use Smarty, which is the dumbest invention ever created. I use it because it's easy to make nice templates for. I use it because it's very secure, and very fast. I use it because it can be used as a backend for static HTML websites. I use it because I can make it perform just about any function. I use it because its SEO capabilities are far better than the competition. I use it because I like it, and because I'm used to it, and because I still think it's the best and most flexible combination of blog and CMS available today.

Admins, keep up the good work. But tell us about it every now and then. Mr. Green

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 02:28pm
By: Anonymous

Its nice to see you are so happy.
I guess the multitude of unhappy ones do not bother or care to speak.
Which even if negative on the outside would have been a positive impetus
for a forward thrust of GL.

Pardon me for asking but Since you are so successful with GL can you kindly let me know :
1) How as admin you can put or change the name of an author or create "more" link for online users ?
2) How you allow users to upload image or media with their stories or allow them to edit/delete comments
[ 1 , 2 being very basic just like inbox + compose is basic in any email ]
3) How you allow users to add "favorit authors/friends" or form their own groups ?

Probably you need none or do you want to have a taste of those features ?

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 02:37pm
By: Dirk

Quote by: headless

Unless we have nothing ... no good hooks/api ... modern developers wont get
attracted ( see how many developers are working free for drupal, e107 etc ) ...
no raodmap to go php5 ... etc etc etc


Ok, I'll bite: What the heck are you talking about? We have quite a few hooks and APIs in Geeklog. They may not always be well-documented, but if anyone is having a problem with them, they can always ask on the geeklog-devel list.

And "no roadmap to go to PHP5"? Geeklog runs just fine on PHP 5 - no need for any roadmap ...

That you're missing a few features here and there is fine, but please stop talking of things you clearly know nothing about ... :speechless:

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 02:47pm
By: 1000ideen

@headless This goes very much off topic but have a look at "Userlogin for Root Static page" for question #1 http://tokyoahead.com/main/staticpages/index.php/geeklogdevelopment. Also users can upload images if they have story.edit rights.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 03:21pm
By: CavemanJoe

Quote by: Headless

Its nice to see you are so happy.
I guess the multitude of unhappy ones do not bother or care to speak.



The same could be said for the happy ones too. Smile


Which even if negative on the outside would have been a positive impetus
for a forward thrust of GL.

Pardon me for asking but Since you are so successful with GL can you kindly let me know :
1) How as admin you can put or change the name of an author or create "more" link for online users ?


...what?


2) How you allow users to upload image or media with their stories or allow them to edit/delete comments
[ 1 , 2 being very basic just like inbox + compose is basic in any email ]


I don't.


3) How you allow users to add "favorit authors/friends" or form their own groups ?

Probably you need none or do you want to have a taste of those features ?[/p]


Aye, you're right. I need neither of the two features you mentioned (the first, I didn't understand). If I need to do something that isn't the accepted norm of what Geeklog's supposed to do, I find GL very easy to hack into submission.

They may not always be well-documented, but if anyone is having a problem with them, they can always ask on the geeklog-devel list.


THIS is a problem. A mailing list? What? Can we have a forum, or a wiki, or something? Can I have an address that I can go to, to look at this stuff?

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 04:12pm
By: Dirk

Quote by: CavemanJoe

THIS is a problem. A mailing list? What? Can we have a forum, or a wiki, or something? Can I have an address that I can go to, to look at this stuff?


Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer mailing lists over forums for most "serious" stuff.

Anyway, it's not like we're hiding the existence of the mailing lists: About the Geeklog mailing lists.

The plugin developer's guide I linked to above is also in the wiki. The wiki thing hasn't worked quite as well for us as we had hoped, but if you'd like to leave anything there, be our guest.

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 06:20pm
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: Dirk

Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer mailing lists over forums for most "serious" stuff.

The only benefit mailing lists have is they can be immediate. Although with RSS feeds, that isn't really a unique feature for them. A forum structure makes it easier to look up and make reference to threads of discussion. They are the modern day newsgroup and newsgroups* were always superior to email for serious discussions.

* I mean dedicated private nntp servers, not something running over Usenet.
The plugin developer's guide I linked to above is also in the wiki. The wiki thing hasn't worked quite as well for us as we had hoped, but if you'd like to leave anything there, be our guest.
As soon as someone gives me a login to the wiki, I'll consider it.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 07:48pm
By: Anonymous

@CavemanJoe
> The same could be said for the happy ones too

Probably not, we could have got a reflection at
http://www.packtpub.com/2007-open-source-cms-award-finalists

> ..what?
>I don't.

Thats great. But I do !

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 10:42pm
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: Headless

Probably not, we could have got a reflection at
http://www.packtpub.com/2007-open-source-cms-award-finalists

I've never heard of that website. In fact, why would I care about a book publisher's "best of CMS" awards? There is no reason for me to ever go to that website. All that says is that those finalists are popular among people who buy books about CMS systems. So what? I wouldn't expect to find anything beyond a wiki for documentation of a CMS system and I assume most CMS systems are such moving targets that a book would become outdated before is saw print.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 11:23pm
By: Anonymous

Neither do I care about any book, book publisher or any award.
But I do care about modern ways of cms, how lightweight yet robust new systems can be
and how they can cater to a wide variety of needs.
It does not harm to download and test and compare, and if felt necssary get inspired ! Big Grin

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 21/10/07 11:31pm
By: Anonymous

Incidentally, it appears that either you do not follow these forums regularly
:rtfm: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=5&showtopic=68632
or you tell ;bout your ignorance only when you choose a person selectively Rolling Eyes

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 02:16am
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: Headless

Incidentally, it appears that either you do not follow these forums regularly
:rtfm: http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=5&showtopic=68632
or you tell ;bout your ignorance only when you choose a person selectively Rolling Eyes

I don't read the "sites" subforums. So yeah, I'm selective. What's your point?

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 03:00am
By: Anonymous

@ Dirk
Cool down, sir !
I was talking about good hooks/apis that can attract
good developers - that they are not attracted and the number
is dwindling is enough proof. You missed the point "good"
Compare the url you gave with this http://api.drupal.org/api/5 and http://api.drupal.org/api/group/hooks/5
Please !

> php5 - running on php5 is one thing and optimzing your code for
php5
or planning a roadmap for this is a different thing.
I wish at least some one read carefully what I wrote !
Please see this http://gophp5.org/

@ the other poster
>Also users can upload images if they have story.edit rights.
For all other decent and logical cms-es, and particularly in this media dominated
web age, users need no special rights to attach image.


If you wish to answer by logic, please answer !

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 03:10am
By: Anonymous

In my above post addressed at Dirk
I was originally referring to what I find ??removed mysteriously !

Dirk wrote to me :
What the heck are you talking about? .... please stop talking of things you clearly know nothing about

To the best of my knowledge, I did not speak about anything I do not know !

Dirk's full post :
Ok, I'll bite: What the heck are you talking about? We have quite a few hooks and APIs in Geeklog. They may not always be well-documented, but if anyone is having a problem with them, they can always ask on the geeklog-devel list.
And "no roadmap to go to PHP5"? Geeklog runs just fine on PHP 5 - no need for any roadmap ...
That you're missing a few features here and there is fine, but please stop talking of things you clearly know nothing about ...

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 03:31am
By: Dirk

Quote by: Headless

@ DirkI was talking about good hooks/apis that can attract
good developers


What's a "good" API? The one we have works, it's easy enough to use, so what's your point?

Geeklog's core code is something like 7 years old by now so of course we don't use the latest and greatest technologies (yet) - but that won't stop anyone from extending Geeklog through our existing APIs.


Quote by: Headless

optimzing your code for
php5
or planning a roadmap for this is a different thing


That's marketing speak and doesn't mean anything. What is there to "optimize" for PHP 5?

FWIW, the upcoming 1.5 release will, for the first time, include a feature that requires PHP 5 to work (the webservices API), mainly because parsing XML is so much easier in PHP 5. There it made sense to require a certain PHP version. For the majority of Geeklog's codebase, it doesn't.

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 03:34am
By: Dirk

Quote by: jmucchiello

As soon as someone gives me a login to the wiki, I'll consider it.


Anyone can get a wiki account easily ...

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 04:46am
By: 1000ideen

Concerning this: http://www.packtpub.com/2007-open-source-cms-award-finalists I`d like to point you to 2 things. Please see how IBM chose "CMS" as demonstration for customers:

This is the overview: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/osource/implement.html
This is the "Comparison of content management solutions" http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/library/i-osource1/#N1014F

As you can see the small number of compared CMS it is a bit strange ...

The other thing is the overall meaning of this. Geeklog`s quality and developement state is similar to Drupal. To me it shows that Geeklog is not "visible" enough. It does not meant that Geeklog is no good.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 05:37am
By: Anonymous

@ Dirk

>What's a "good" API?
>What is there to "optimize" for PHP 5?

You answer it yourself :
we don't use the latest and greatest technologies
- may be the think-tank should be tickled to wonder
why not, when others can

@1000ideen

> Geeklog`s quality and developement state is similar to Drupal

Not at all ! More kbs of code, more theme files to manage,
no universal comment engine
for all types of nodes ( including forum ) though I beleive it
was there in Dirk's site. GL lacks system and logic when
you compare to Drupal.

As years fly by you cannot just sit and be slow to update
your core. PHP4 has now been discarded, and PHP6 is on the horizon
which discards register global etc.
Unless the acts are tightened now ...... .....

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 05:55am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: Headless

@ Dirk
no universal comment engine


how many engines did you find? I see only one that allows all the comments in any place for GL.
The plugin authors are of course free to use it if they want. It is not GL's duty to force plugin devs to use the API.
If I would write tomorrow a module for drupal that uses its own engine, we are at the same state.

Quote by: Headless

@ Dirk
As years fly by you cannot just sit and be slow to update
your core. PHP4 has now been discarded, and PHP6 is on the horizon
which discards register global etc.
Unless the acts are tightened now ...... .....



PHP4 is still supported at this point in time. How can you blame someone for still supporting it? We made a clear decision on the dev mailing list to go with the gophp5 movement as soon as it was announced. You are expecting us to jump ahead of that? Is Drupal doing this? You expect GL and drupal to repleace all code that could be different in PHP5 code to be updated within the next version?

Finally I come back to my initial Mythbusters-posting:
I am, as a core-developer, not here to copy Drupal or to write code just to make one trolling anonymous annoyed and headless forum-poster happy. I am not here to write code for GL that is making it better in my eyes as I see it necessary. If anyone thinks that different things are necessary, they are welcome to contribute code or at least suggest concrete changes in a acceptable and formal way. It is no wonder that things that no-one ever asked for do not get implemented, even if other projects have that single feature.

Those wo want to sit at the keyboard to complain, and simply accuse the core team of beeing ignorant to the great movements of programming or other systems may continue to do so. Others, who kindly contribute and are able to submit more of their code than their ego, are always welcome. We are working people who try hard to make GL better in their little spare time. Help us doing so in a productive manner with suggestions or code. Everything else is trolling the forums.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 06:39am
By: Anonymous

LOL

Who is trolling ? I think by this time I have made
enough posts, supported by logic and links

> how many engines did you find

at least two ! forum comments can be edited, story comments cannot be
by the user.

> ...

no one has asked any one to copy drupal, asking for a visible roadmap
is not asking to "jump" and if you read these forums you will find
many necessary things asked by many never got implemeted.
also, suggestions and discussions are not complaints neither trolls Big Grin

By this time, there is sufficient material in this thread to form
one's own opinion 8)

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 07:00am
By: Anonymous


> Is Drupal doing this?

yes -> http://drupal.org/gophp5



> concrete suggestions :

HERE they are :

- download and make a cursory comparative study of drupal, e107, xoops [+- plone ]
- plan how more php5 codes can be used + code base size can be reduced
- less numbered and more planned theme files
- admin ability to change authorname, choose how many comments per page,
how many online users to show before a "more who are online" link appears etc etc
- universal comment system that allows users to edit ( and delete ) comments
that appears uniform all over the site including forums
- once guest books were enough, then came cms-es and blogs and snw
so atleast ( if not in core itself ) have immedaite core plugins or core-inclusive
per user blog + ability of user to form his own community or group
- ability of users to submit image along with text for story without any extra thing being done by admin
- ability of users to mark favorit authors or favorit posts

All these features have been asked repeatedly in this site over many months and many years ... you can do a thorough search as it appears you are very new to GL ( I apologize sincerely if I am wrong )
Most cms-es offer these out of box or as core plugins, and their developers are also mostly hobbyists and part time coders with families, yet they have a swelling developer / contributor community ( instead of dwindling one at GL - see older mod / plugin pages here to see what I mean )

Even if certain posts make you feel uncomfortable/angry/attacking etc try to see through the lines :
if there is substance accept it gracefully Big Grin

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 07:50am
By: 1000ideen

IMHO this looks more like a personal wishlist than a Geeklog rescue plan.

Why don`t you discuss each of them in a separate thread? There are many people here who could help you. I already gave a hint on how to change the name of an author.

I started comparing many CMS or rather looked for opinions on them to find those which may be really worthwhile the effort of comparing. Have read this: On e107 http://drupal.org/node/107882 on Xoops http://drupal.org/node/184455#comment-282199

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 08:01am
By: CavemanJoe

A cursory comparative study of other engines - those engines already exist, man. If people want a site that does XYZ, they'll use engine XYZ, which is perfectly geared-up towards such a usage. What's the benefit to Geeklog in duplicating already-existing functionality? Shouldn't we be trying to make something new, instead?

GL already runs just fine on PHP5.

Comments displayed by page would be nice, I guess. Never saw the need myself, but I guess some people might find it useful.

There does need to be tighter integration between the forum and the rest of the site - it'd be nicer if a user's forum posts were shown in his/her bio page, and it'd be nice also if there was an option for story comments to increment a user's forum post count. This is probably something to talk to the creators of the Forum plugin about.

Regarding user blogs and groups - I think it's a neat idea, and something that's been tried in the past with the Journal plugin, and perhaps something that should be tried again. But to be honest, if I want a site that does that sort of stuff, I'd use a different CMS. For me, Geeklog has always been primarily a very flexible blog engine, like WordPress for people who know their arses from their elbows.

User-submitted images with blog posts - I'm pretty sure there's a sound reason, security-wise, why this isn't enabled by default.

Favourite authors/posts - why? How would this enrich the user experience? Does BoingBoing have that functionality?

I think my biggest gripe with Geeklog right now is geeklog.net, which looks outdated and has usability issues. Outdated in that, aesthetically, it looks like a site from the mid-90's, and usability issues meaning:

REAL LIFE
To see what's going on behind the scenes at Geeklog:
1. Go to Geeklog.net
2. Click on "Mailing Lists" -> takes you to http://www.geeklog.net/faqman/index.php?op=view&t=15
3. Click on "Geeklog-Devel" -> takes you to http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/geeklog-devel
4. Click on "geeklog-devel-archives" -> takes you to http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/
5. Look for a search box
6. Do this: :doh:
7. Sigh heavily, click on the "Thread" link next to "October", which takes you to http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-October/thread.html
8. Do this again: :doh:
9: Accidentally stumble across THIS, proclaim to the Heavens "WHY THE HELL HAVE I ONLY JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS."
10. Rejoice.

MAXIMUM NUMBER OF STEPS THE USER EXPECTS:
1. Go to Geeklog.net
2. Click on "What's going on with Geeklog 1.5"
3. Click on "Subscribe to RSS"
4. Rejoice.

THE IDEAL THAT THE USER EXPECTS:
1. Go to Geeklog.net
2. Rejoice.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 09:58am
By: Anonymous

> study of other engines - those engines already exist

They exist on part of GL developers / posters here ?? where ? how ?? !!!!!

> Shouldn't we be trying to make something new, instead?

Only when we have met the basic needs Smile
such as admin's ability to limit number of comments to 'n'/page or
users ability to edit a comment,
and what are the new things you opine can be done ?

> Favourite authors/posts - why? How would this enrich the user experience?

Marking posts lets you come back to what you want as well as let other's
see those, same about favorit authors - it has viral effect, that is the way
the web is moving Smile You may have no need or may ignore, but MANY
actually need ( rss / email subs is not subsitute for this )

> GL already runs just fine on PHP5.
That is not the issue. You may see how php5 can help - though the article is about WP
http://funkatron.com/index.php/site/what-matt-mullenweg-doesnt-know-about-php5-and-how-it-hurts-him-and-his-use/

> I think my biggest gripe with Geeklog right now is geeklog.net, which looks outdated

A site reflects the core it runs - if you understand what I mean.

>User-submitted images with blog posts - I'm pretty sure there's a sound reason, security-wise, why this isn't enabled

If I remember correctly Blaine and others were at loss of logic when pressed on this issue
years ago - an user can submit image / edit it with his profile page, that does not cause
security issues ?
Any logic please ?

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 11:12am
By: geiss

Quote by: CavemanJoe


9: Accidentally stumble across THIS, proclaim to the Heavens "WHY THE HELL HAVE I ONLY JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS."
10. Rejoice.



LOL Thanks for the shout! I like your sense of humor about the whole thing! Big Grin

At risk of trying to do something productive :wink: , please voice your thoughts/ideas/concerns about this new theme I'm working on in this forum thread. I really appreciate (and listen to) constructive feedback. :shakehands:

Thx!

Eric 'Geiss' Warren

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 05:00pm
By: Dirk

Quote by: CavemanJoe

4. Click on "geeklog-devel-archives" -> takes you to http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/
5. Look for a search box
6. Do this: :doh:


Yeah, I keep forgetting there's no search since I have all the mailing list posts from the last 5+ years readily available in my email client ...

Try Google, adding "inurl:geeklog-devel" to your query. You may have to click on the link to display the omitted results to see all posts.

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 22/10/07 05:05pm
By: CavemanJoe

Quote by: Dirk


Try Google, adding "inurl:geeklog-devel" to your query. You may have to click on the link to display the omitted results to see all posts.



I most certainly bloody well will not! I'm trying to play the part of a casual observer trying to decide whether to give Geeklog a whirl, remember? Rolling Eyes

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 23/10/07 01:14am
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: Headless

> GL already runs just fine on PHP5.
That is not the issue. You may see how php5 can help - though the article is about WP
http://funkatron.com/index.php/site/what-matt-mullenweg-doesnt-know-about-php5-and-how-it-hurts-him-and-his-use/

That's a big. "So?" What makes you think we (or for that matter Matt Mullenweg) don't know about these php5 features? Geeklog doesn't suffer from those problems. It's called good programming practices. Besides if you want all these new features, why would Geeklog spend months converting its database code and stuff just for php5?

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 02:26am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: jmucchiello

Quote by: Headless

> GL already runs just fine on PHP5.
That is not the issue. You may see how php5 can help - though the article is about WP
http://funkatron.com/index.php/site/what-matt-mullenweg-doesnt-know-about-php5-and-how-it-hurts-him-and-his-use/

That's a big. "So?" What makes you think we (or for that matter Matt Mullenweg) don't know about these php5 features? ?



BECAUSE NO ONE EVER ANSWERS THIS SIMPLE QUESTION - SEE BELOW !

>User-submitted images with blog posts - I'm pretty sure there's a sound reason, security-wise, why this isn't enabled

If I remember correctly Blaine and others were at loss of logic when pressed on this issue
years ago - an user can submit image / edit it with his profile page, that does not cause
security issues ? Any logic please ?

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 02:55am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: Headless

Quote by: jmucchiello

Quote by: Headless

> GL already runs just fine on PHP5.
That is not the issue. You may see how php5 can help - though the article is about WP
http://funkatron.com/index.php/site/what-matt-mullenweg-doesnt-know-about-php5-and-how-it-hurts-him-and-his-use/

That's a big. "So?" What makes you think we (or for that matter Matt Mullenweg) don't know about these php5 features? ?



BECAUSE NO ONE EVER ANSWERS THIS SIMPLE QUESTION - SEE BELOW !



You do not seem to get it, right? How explicit does one have to be? How often shall I repeat myself? How loud do you have to scream to make your trolling objective 100% clear?

1: Geeklog "joined" gophp5 as I told you before (see my post above):

> We made a clear decision on the dev mailing list to go with the gophp5 movement as soon as it was announced.
We will not object to PHP5-exlusive code and will apply improvements to the code as it we see it works out best according to our individual knowledge and schedules.

2: We have already implemented PHP5-only code where it made the most sense (as Dirk told you)

3: We have FAR more pressing things todo ( ...than revamping the whole code at once) that give GL a much better advantage per hour spent coding than what you suggest. We are currently doing a config-managment, an installation script, Webservices, only to name the big things that are not yet 100% finished, the rest you can see in the history file in CVS in case you care. We have limited ressources, and the gophp5 action started only after the last release of GL. So obviously, we would not go for PHP5-exclusive code before that. So your argument, "As years fly by you cannot just sit and be slow to update your core. PHP4 has now been discarded, and PHP6 is on the horizon which discards register global etc." is just another sign of trolling. As if we still had register-globals on! As if the code or the site still has any resemblance to two years ago!

4. Thanks for your "> concrete suggestions :"
I would like to invite you to do some of that yourself. That way you can help us in improving the code in the way you expect it to be. After all, you seem to be an expert in several CMS'es, so why not do that comparative study? Also I invite you to write plugins for the favorite authors for example, and a patch together with config-options to allow deleting and editing of comments (please make sure that comments with replies are treated differently).
I dont have the time now. I have to travel for the next 4 weeks for business. Also, I have different priorities what should be done next in the code. When I am back I am happy to go through your code and the study and upload it to the CVS as soon as you get it working 100%.

thanks for your kind contribution to GL.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 05:42am
By: Anonymous

Welcome back, Tokyoahead Big Grin
How do you do ?

Sadly I did not find geeklog at http://gophp5.org/projects
Correct me if I am wrong.

Also, you probably missed my second quote ( and the query) .
No problem.
Thanks for cooling down Smile

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 06:32am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: Headless


Sadly I did not find geeklog at http://gophp5.org/projects
Correct me if I am wrong.



It seems to be news to you but one can make a decsison on gophp5 without beeing listed there.
I did not expect you to know that GL is following the gophp5 guidelines until I told you but you seem to ignore what I told you and only accept the list at gophp5.

Maybe your criticism on GL would be much less if you read how contributions are made to the team instead of looking only waht other projects have or do and complain that we dont have or do exactly the same. Then you would maybe get an account here and start to be productive.

But given that you did not propose any work done by you after my last post I suppose you simply rather complain instead of contributing, which of course is much more convenient and easy, but of course requires you to rename anonymous, but at least with a rather fitting temporary nickname.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 07:08am
By: Anonymous

So, whats the harm in listing, then Big Grin

Also, I still did not get answer to my second quote from any one.

And BTW, do not you find logical constructive complaints
productive and inspirational ? Smile

Best wishes for your business journey !


Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 07:15am
By: Anonymous

> Surely they areAnd BTW, do not you find logical constructive complaints
> productive and inspirational ?

the bad word here is "Complaints"

if anything someone says would make you start working on something probably people would answer.
Since you only complain and even no matter if prooved wrong or right wont budge and contribute, people do not see a reason to argue with you.

I simply do that because I dont want others to come and read your complaints and think you are right because nobody argues with you. But I guess I will take a different tactic next time.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 07:27am
By: Anonymous

Have I been proved wrong ? Where ? Big Grin
You are right people can come and see what is wrong and what is right !!

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 10:11am
By: 1000ideen

Concerning user-submitted images with blog posts I remember it has not been coded yet because nobody had time. Anyway, what do you need it for? Give your users story.edit rights and all is done.

It is up to you now to be constructive even if you can`t code! See this example:
http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=6&showtopic=74649 I compared some features of Xoops and e107. e107 got very nice email routing.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 02:08pm
By: Dirk

There are probably a few questions in this thread worth answering, but I'm growing tired of this so-called discussion ...

Just two quick ones:

1) We didn't make any decisions wrt gophp5. That initiative became obsolete the moment the PHP developers decided to stop all support for PHP 4 in August 2008. Until then, we will make sure that Geeklog runs on PHP 4 - only excluding clearly defined parts of its functionality. Like the webservices API in 1.5, which will require PHP 5.

2) Regarding the image upload: As Markus said, it's simply that this was never considered important enough to do anything about it. There is no security issue here (at least not more than with the upload of userphotos) and I doubt anyone from the core team ever made such a statement.

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 09:33pm
By: Anonymous

My apologies for making you tired, Dirk

php5 is not just using one function or two, and gophp5 is
a plan or roadmap for near future; apart from the technicalities,
putting oneself on the list makes more visibility > more
users/ads/donations etc


Regarding gophp5

Geeklog joined gophp5 as I told you before - Tokyoahead
We didn't make any decisions wrt gophp5. - Dirk

Regarding image upload :

[b]The main reason we don't ship this feature enabled is security.
Geeklog has always put security first[/b]


a senior member of the core team,
- http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=6&showtopic=66732
3rd reply

There is no security issue here - Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 09:50pm
By: Anonymous

But finally it does not matter if you all say the same or contradict each other.

Since Geeklog does not offer the options I want, I rather use Drupal.
Otherwise this discussion will last forever, picking apart every not
perfect line of code.

I probably regret writing that in 5 mintues, but I had my fun arguing with you
so far, and have better things to do now. Bye! :banana:

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 25/10/07 10:08pm
By: Anonymous

Since Dirk and Tokyoahead asked ( and others who asked )
I gave the answers. It will be NICE to hear from them Big Grin



There is another option when GL does NOT offer the options
I want - keep on harping logically in the hope some logical and kind
core-members takes notice.
Guess who benefits GL !

Cheers Smile

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 26/10/07 03:25am
By: Dirk

Quote by: Headless

Regarding image upload :

[b]The main reason we don't ship this feature enabled is security.
Geeklog has always put security first[/b]


a senior member of the core team,
- http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=6&showtopic=66732
3rd reply

There is no security issue here - Dirk


These are two different issues. To make use of images uploaded through FCKeditor, you need the HTML <img> tag - which does have security issues, which is why we filter it out by default. For images uploaded through Geeklog, you can use Geeklog's own [ imageX ] tags.

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 26/10/07 04:17am
By: Anonymous

Thanks Dirk.
But this has nothing to do with FCK editor or tags or whatever.
Its a question of simple image upload along with text submission without any need
of special editorship or special plugin.


GL allows user to upload image in profile page along with text, it does not allow same user to upload image along with text in story submission page.

[b]Blaine says this is security issue[/b].
You say this has nothing to do with security and doubt any core member has made such comment


I wanted to know the logic behind this Smile

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 26/10/07 04:38am
By: Dirk

Quote by: Headless

But this has nothing to do with FCK editor or tags or whatever.


What? Did you even read what you're replying to? Every aspect has been answered in the posts above. Please read them again.

bye, Dirk :banghead:

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 26/10/07 04:59am
By: Anonymous

I have read Dirk. But I am sorry probably you missed what we are talking about.
Better this thread be closed.

For the last time I repeat :

:rtfm: GL allows user to upload image in profile page along with text, it does not allow same user to upload image along with text in story submission page. Whats the logic ???

[ Blaine categorically said this is security issue, while you say that is simply not ]

Thanks for your effort.

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 26/10/07 02:20pm
By: Dirk

Dear "Headless", please learn to read or simply refuse to comment any further ... To quote myself from above:
2) Regarding the image upload: As Markus said, it's simply that this was never considered important enough to do anything about it. There is no security issue here (at least not more than with the upload of userphotos) and I doubt anyone from the core team ever made such a statement.

And, again, the quote from Blaine was about something else - but I already wrote that above, too.

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 26/10/07 05:18pm
By: Anonymous

Shall this go on and on until I am proved liar Smile

To quote from Blaine from the same post :
There is for example an exploit where a user may upload HTML code that is embedded in a image file and could execute a cross site script.
An user named Lopez asked ( to which there was no reply )
Thanks Blaine. Actually core GL does NOT always filter this out, for example
the profile page allows user photo upload. By the same logic as yours an user
may use this for exploit !!
Thus it is not quite logical to me as to what you say. BTW how does gallery
scripts handle the security issue then ??


That keeps you wondering : what ! HTML code embedded in an image file ! and how it can be embedded in an image attached with a story and not with a profile 8)

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 27/10/07 04:15pm
By: Dirk

This is yet another issue (and one that I was already hinting at with the "There is no security issue here (at least not more than with the upload of userphotos)" remark above.

You can embed PHP in images. If you then somehow manage to run those images through the PHP interpreter, you have a security issue. But that requires another vulnerability in the software - so as long as you don't have that, PHP in image files is not an issue (I don't think there's a problem with embedded HTML - but I've learned never to say "never" when it comes to security issues ...).

I would be more worried about denial of service-type issues with the image upload in stories (as opposed to the userphoto, of which there is only one and it requires an account). Or someone uploading porn or copyrighted stuff ...

Are we done now or do you have any other quotes that you want to blow completely out of proportion?

bye, Dirk

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 28/10/07 04:25am
By: Dirk

Headless, your latest posts were rejected as spam due to the use of the word "porno". I have removed that word from our blacklist now. Sorry about that.

I'm reproducing your first rejected post below:

Quote by: Headless

I meant allowing users with account but not giving them any special rights to attach

at least one image with story submission. Copyright icons or porno miniatures or code or whatever can still be uploaded via user photo, since it is after all an image Smile Thus the search for logic in what GL does w.r.t is still on !



I do not think I have blown anything out of proportion and to the core-member who made a post mimicking my name and to others, just to remind that this is a feedback forum.



Whether we are done or not is absolutley the decision of respectable core and registered members.

So cheers and enjoy your sunday 8)


Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 28/10/07 06:48am
By: Anonymous

I meant allowing users **with account** but not giving them any special rights to
attach at least one image with story submission. Copyright icons or porno miniatures or code or whatever can still be uploaded via user photo if someone wants so acc to you, since it is after all an image !! Thus the search for logic in what GL does w.r.t is still on !

I do not think I have blown anything **out of proportion ** and to the core-member who made a post mimicking my name and to others, just to remind that this is a **feedback** forum.

Whether we are done or not is absolutley the decision of respectable core and registered members.
So cheers and enjoy your sunday 8)

Re: GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

Posted on: 28/10/07 07:49am
By: Dirk

Quote by:

Thus the search for logic in what GL does w.r.t is still on !


I don't get it. Everything has already been explained to you above - repeatedly and in painstaking detail. And you're wondering why people don't take you seriously or consider you a troll?

bye, Dirk

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