Subject: nexPro

Posted on: 01/10/07 05:29pm
By: jmucchiello

Is it right to put such advertising in the featured news story? There is no right or wrong answer to this question. Geeklog lives or dies by its core devs so sure, why not? But this is also the world's window onto the GL community so not all interests can be bettered equally.

Funny thing is, I've been working on plugins that are similar in concept to your nexForm and nexFlow plugins.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 02/10/07 04:56pm
By: LWC

Geeklog lives or dies by its core devs so sure.

I think this line says it all. As much as I love Geeklog, it doesn't act at all like an open source software (not that it has to, of course). There's no democracy and voting like in Wikipedia. Nobody knows who's in charge except Dirk and Blaine. It's virtually impossible for anyone other than them to inject new features.

Even the symbolic front page link to the bug tracker is gone.

Then, the Geeklog philosophy went on without a change to its plugins' authors, except there it's even one man in full charge (well, have you ever seen a female Geeklog developer?). So we have very few plugins and Blaine's ones usually cost money.

Again, I stress I have no right to demand anything, but I would have liked a communitee that makes decisions together, in true open source form. So yes, you're right. The entire system lies in the hands of perhaps two people and now one of them is seem to have gone 100% commercial.

To be honest, I don't even know know how big the community is if no one bothers replying to your topic.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 02/10/07 05:24pm
By: Dazzy

Personnally I see this differently (mind you it may be the pints of vodka i am consuming tonight) but everyone has to make a living and I have no problem with the way geeklog is run, nor have i had a problem paying for stuff, over the 4-5 years i have used geeklog i have invested a good $1500 - $2000 between plugins and contributions to support individuals without any complaint.

If Blaine wants to produce professional plugins for sale it is his business and I am in no position to judge, there are many others that have done it too. If JM wants to charge for any off his plugins I would also be willing to pay for them should I need them and that goes for anyone on here.

I posted a feeler a number of weeks ago about a user blogs bounty ( a feature which has been requested numerous times to date) and blaine and JM were the only ones to show any interest.

Blaine, Dirk, Tony and all the other core team are under no obligation to continue with geeklog yet they do, committing their own time, money and energy into something they believe in, for which I am thankful.

As for the bug report system it has been stated in the developer mailing list this is being converted to mantis.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 02/10/07 05:30pm
By: beewee

If you see the lack of responses on the forum the last months, I'm afraid Geeklog is slowly running towards a dead end, it simply can't compete with Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal etc.

Let's hope that the nice new themes some people introduced and ported recently will attract some new members who can give their 2c to the community.

Geeklog urgently needs a decent classifieds plugin, better spam protection, really good SEO, Digg-like rating options, fancy comment forms, banner/adsense manager, subcategories, tags, installer (is coming) and a new unique and astonishing CSS-based theme to become a CMS that can compete with the rest.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 02/10/07 06:16pm
By: Dirk

Quote by: Dazzy

As for the bug report system it has been stated in the developer mailing list this is being converted to mantis.


There's probably a lot happening "behind the scenes" that people are not aware of when they don't read geeklog-devel. Add our slow release cycles and I can understand that it sometimes may appear as if the project is "dead". It isn't.

That's also one of the reasons for my Summer of Code Roundup post. I guess I should have mentioned that the 3 students who successfully completed their 1.x projects have indicated that they will be sticking around. In other words, we just got 3 new core developers.


Quote by: beewee

better spam protection


Like what? This is something I care very much about, so please let us know what you think is missing from / wrong with the current one (preferrably in a new discussion thread).

bye, Dirk

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 02/10/07 07:53pm
By: LWC

Spam is actually something I think Geeklog has no problems with - ever since Mark's Captcha plugin.

Except one problem. However, it can be easily solved by finally making my patch official: A public dummy site mail and a protected real site mail

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 03/10/07 02:50pm
By: Laugh

Quote by: beewee

If you see the lack of responses on the forum the last months, I'm afraid Geeklog is slowly running towards a dead end, it simply can't compete with Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal etc.

Let's hope that the nice new themes some people introduced and ported recently will attract some new members who can give their 2c to the community.

Geeklog urgently needs a decent classifieds plugin, better spam protection, really good SEO, Digg-like rating options, fancy comment forms, banner/adsense manager, subcategories, tags, installer (is coming) and a new unique and astonishing CSS-based theme to become a CMS that can compete with the rest.




While Geeklog does need a few things, IMO some of the items you listed don't need to be there:

SPAM - With Marks Captcha plugin my site spam problem went down by 99%. I don't feel spam is a real issue at the moment (of course others may be having problems).
tags - While not known to most yet (since it is not released yet) jmucchiello has a tags plugin almost finished.
Digg-like rating options - The rating plugin does offer this
SEO - I'm just curious by what you mean really good?
adsense manager - What features are you looking for here? Just stick your adsense code in a block or template file. You could even use the autotag plugin if you want.


And regarding the Nextide Featured Story, my first gut reaction was that geeklog had sold out. After thinking it over, I'm ok with it. Blaine puts a lot of hard work into geeklog plus this does product does relate. When a company uses Geeklog or offers products and services related to Geeklog, it helps expand Geeklogs influence and shows it is a reliable cms solution. It probably would be a good thing if there was some pages on geeklog.net listing all of the commercial plugins and developers and either how to contact them or where to find their site to get more information about the product.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 03/10/07 05:57pm
By: beewee

Quote by: beewee

better spam protection


Like what? This is something I care very much about, so please let us know what you think is missing from / wrong with the current one (preferrably in a new discussion thread).

bye, Dirk


Like Akismet, which is available for more blogsystems, not only to Wordpress. Captcha works fine of course, but lots of people are annoyed by it.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 03/10/07 06:25pm
By: beewee

tags - While not known to most yet (since it is not released yet) jmucchiello has a tags plugin almost finished.

Geeklog doesn't allow to put a story in more than one topic, tags will allow you to, and they could be used bij other plugins (image galleries etc) sitewide as well.

Digg-like rating options - The rating plugin does offer this
Only the rating part, not the "social" part.

SEO - I'm just curious by what you mean really good?
- Better pagetitles, and the ability to edit them.
- Metadescription ditto
- Tags (internal links with the right anchor text, just the way Google likes it)
- SEO friendly URL's and navigation sitewide: www.site.com/topic/subtopic/story-id
- Google sitemap
- I can think of many more. Have a look at Wordpress and Drupal!


adsense manager - What features are you looking for here? Just stick your adsense code in a block or template file. You could even use the autotag plugin if you want.
I know, and tried many blending options with good results (CTR>7%) but:
- Ads placed in the middle of a story convert better
- You're allowed only 3 Adsense ads per page
- So it's damn tricky just putting some ads in certain stories, since that could result in more than 3 ads on a page if you happen to see a few stories at a time on one page.
So a banner/adsense manager with some random functions sitewide would allow you to put some well converting ads on your site without annoying visitors or Google with too many ads.


And regarding the Nextide Featured Story, my first gut reaction was that geeklog had sold out
Well, how do you think visitors, who do not know anything about GL and the efforts of Blaine and Dirk, would think of that story? I think they'll click the "back" button, since they're looking for an open source CMS.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 03/10/07 06:47pm
By: Laugh

Well, how do you think visitors, who do not know anything about GL and the efforts of Blaine and Dirk, would think of that story? I think they'll click the "back" button, since they're looking for an open source CMS.


Good point here. There has been some disscusion on the mailing lists of late regarding this issue. New themes are being considered. There was also talk of better organization of the site and to make Geeklogs home page more friendly towards normal visitors looking for a CMS and not so developer oriented.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 03/10/07 07:26pm
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: beewee

tags - While not known to most yet (since it is not released yet) jmucchiello has a tags plugin almost finished.

Geeklog doesn't allow to put a story in more than one topic, tags will allow you to, and they could be used bij other plugins (image galleries etc) sitewide as well.

And that's why I'm working on a plugin that allows tagging.... I suppose now I need to get it out the door.
adsense manager - What features are you looking for here? Just stick your adsense code in a block or template file. You could even use the autotag plugin if you want.
I know, and tried many blending options with good results (CTR>7%) but:
- Ads placed in the middle of a story convert better
- You're allowed only 3 Adsense ads per page
- So it's damn tricky just putting some ads in certain stories, since that could result in more than 3 ads on a page if you happen to see a few stories at a time on one page.
So a banner/adsense manager with some random functions sitewide would allow you to put some well converting ads on your site without annoying visitors or Google with too many ads.
Write it if you want it. Or bounty it. At a minimum, ask for it. Your post is the first I've seen looking for a full adsense plugin. Most folks just ask "how do I put adsense on my page". This is the first time I've heard "I need to put no more that 3 on a page and I want them inside of stories."

And as the writer of the autotags plugin.... Add a tag to the middle of your stories like [adsense:topic]. Create the phpautotags_adsense function. Inside it, declare a static var and increment it each time you put up an ad. After three ads, return '' from the autotag. Not that hard really.
And regarding the Nextide Featured Story, my first gut reaction was that geeklog had sold out
Well, how do you think visitors, who do not know anything about GL and the efforts of Blaine and Dirk, would think of that story? I think they'll click the "back" button, since they're looking for an open source CMS.[/p]
Getting back on topic, this I can agree with. As I said: I'm not against the advertising on geeklog.net. I just don't think it should be featured.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 03/10/07 07:54pm
By: Blaine

First, there are many significant contributors to the Geeklog project and some of these comments are not warranted. A lot of work has been done in the past few months by the core developers (Oliver and Michael and our Summer Students) on GL 1.5. Thats not to mention the work Tony and his students have done on GL 2. Also let's not forget the great work that Mark and Eric have shown in the past few months and the launch of the gllabs.org site is a great new resource for the GL community. The core team is certainly more the Dirk and I,but I will be the first to say this community project would not be half as good without Dirk leading it.

We certainly need to be challenged and need new ideas raised but it should be in context and comments in this thread seem to be all over the place.

Quote by: beewee

Well, how do you think visitors, who do not know anything about GL and the efforts of Blaine and Dirk, would think of that story? I think they'll click the "back" button, since they're looking for an open source CMS.


A very high percentage of of the visitors to this site are the GL community and many of these members use GL inside their businesses where they have needs for features and services that we announced with nexPro. This is important news to them as there is nothing like this available today, not even with other PHP frameworks.

Is this story advertising - maybe but it's mostly news and I've not just arrived on the scene, so this is not a un-solicited flying banner ad for a new toaster or faster better widget. Not only have I been contributing under my name for the past years, so has Nextide. In addition to many bug fixes and new features like the whole autotag API capability and MSSQL support we contributed.

I encourage you to look at the nexpro feature set, demo videos and our Wiki which we are continuing to be updated. It really shows what the GL application framework can do. For example, we have a client that is using the workflow engine and dynamic online forms for critical business processes. After 2 years, they have over 2000 forms and generated about 20,000 workflow tasks. This helps illustrate what a great framework and project geeklog is and I hope others in the community see this as more then advertising but significant news. NexPro is built on native GL and all of our plugins and features extend the native capabilities so it's certainly not a fork and we have no intentions of doing so.

These are excitting times for the GL community with new themes and plugins. Let's not be taking a negaitve view and bringing some of us down after so much hard work. I think we should be celebrating and far more up-beat. Anyone reading this thread up to now would surely have left the site and it would not have been because of the featured story.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 03/10/07 08:45pm
By: jmucchiello

Blaine, the point you are missing is that some people come to Geeklog for it's Geek appeal. And Geeks like Open Source. OS projects are not just code, but also community. It can be very frustrating that Geeklog is not run like other Open Source projects. Where's the roadmap? Where's the sense of openness? I've been making noise here for over two years and still feel like an outsider. OS projects usually have a sense of community. Geeklog is more cathedral than bazaar. Any suggestions or patches that never seem to go anywhere add to the sense that Geeklog is not a community OS project but a platform to further the core developers' commercial interests.

Now, of course, I'm sure there are lots of other OS projects run the same way. There's nothing wrong with the way Geeklog is run. But that doesn't mean we our reaction to seeing basically an ad on the geeklog.net homepage didn't strike a nerve. People post here about not liking the vibe of the featured story for a reason. Telling them they are wrong isn't the answer.

The core team is certainly more the Dirk and I,but I will be the first to say this community project would not be half as good without Dirk leading it.
At no time has anyone said the core team should stop doing anything. The flaw here is visibility as I describe in the next section:

Not only have I been contributing under my name for the past years, so has Nextide. In addition to many bug fixes and new features like the whole autotag API and capability, we contributed the MSSQL support.
Of course because I can easily go read the release notes and see who contributed it. What? There are no release notes? Well, adding MSSQL was certainly on the roadmap as a planned feature, right? Has Geeklog 1.5 reached any of its milestones? If I wanted to do testing in CVS what should I concentrate on? I want to submit a patch for ADMIN_list who owns that feature? Forgive my sarcasm but the complete silence about future features and how the core team works or even what the core devs are working on can be deafening at times.

Anyone reading this thread up to now would surely have left the site and it would not have been because of the featured story.
I disagree. Part of being an OS project is airing your dirty laundry. It happens. We post because we care. Better to have people who care then to have no people.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 04/10/07 01:31pm
By: Dirk

Quote by: beewee

Like Akismet, which is available for more blogsystems, not only to Wordpress.


There is an Akismet module for Spam-X.

The problem with Akismet is that you need a wordpress.com account to be able to use it. So obviously we can't ship it with Geeklog because that would mean that we would have to ask our users to sign up with the "competition" before they can use the spam filter.

That's why we're using SLV which does pretty much the same thing but without the need to sign up for anything.

bye, Dirk

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 04/10/07 01:40pm
By: Dirk

Quote by: jmucchiello

Of course because I can easily go read the release notes and see who contributed it. What? There are no release notes?


Okay, now you're being silly. There's a very detailed changelog right there in your public_html/docs directory. And it's linked from the top of changes.html

To quote:
- Added support for Microsoft SQL Server, provided by Randy Kolenko

Not to mention Randy's article about it.

As I already admitted above, we may have a visibility problem here - if you don't read the geeklog-devel mailing list, you won't know about some things that are going on. But you are on that mailing list, so I have to wonder about some of your comments here ...

bye, Dirk

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 04/10/07 02:40pm
By: beewee

Quote by: DirkThere is an Akismet module for Spam-X.

The problem with Akismet is that you need a wordpress.com account to be able to use it. So obviously we can't ship it with Geeklog because that would mean that we would have to ask our users to sign up with the "competition" before they can use the spam filter.

bye, Dirk

OK, but that's also in the spirit of open source, right? Share services, knowledge, etc etc. Since yesterday it's even possible to integrate Wordpress into Drupal and Drupal into Wordpress, so what is "competition" in the world of open source?

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 04/10/07 04:00pm
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: Dirk

As I already admitted above, we may have a visibility problem here - if you don't read the geeklog-devel mailing list, you won't know about some things that are going on. But you are on that mailing list, so I have to wonder about some of your comments here ...

bye, Dirk

http://us1.samba.org/samba/
http://joomla.org/
http://gimp.org/ (Although, that is one ugly homepage)

How long did it take you to find the release notes or changelog at those web addresses? Where are these files for geeklog? Is there a feature list on the homepage? You pointed out changes.html, if I'm new to GL do I use the documentation link or the Wiki Docs link to stumble over it?

Yeah, I'm on the devel list. What are you working on for 1.5, Dirk? At the moment you are integrating your GSOC's student's web services code into 1.5 but what have you done since 12/31/2006 (release of 1.4.1)? I have no idea. How about Blaine? No idea. I suppose I could go read the CVS mailing list to find out. Severe changes were made to the ADMIN_list API a couple months ago. For what reason? I don't know. Is it for some other project I'm not aware of? I don't know but it does break any plugins using the old interface so there must be some important reason he did it.

I've asked all these questions on the mailing list and the response I got was the same one I got here. Many times I seen the response to the effect that roadmaps and such would be nice but there's no time for them. Here's an excerpt from a post by Oliver to me:
[Oliver wrote]In reply to Joe Mucchiello on Aug 12, 2007
> See, now this is odd. Having documented plans make Geeklog look better
> to people seeing it for the first time. People like to know where the
> software will be tomorrow. Geeklog is not a commercial entity but you
> sell to folks. Anything that provides them peace of mind should be
> front and center on the Geeklog homepage. People outside the inner
> circle need to be able to plan for their own usage of Geeklog. Having
> plans makes our lives easier. I'm a user and I'd like to know where
> Geeklog is going. Are you saying it isn't worth your time to keep
> people in the know?

well as I said, if you have more things to do than you have time to, you
have to set priorities. and between fixing bugs and writing code for the
next version that is already decided to be implemented, no-one had done
so far the concentrated effort of creating such a roadmap. I fully agree
with you that it would be better to have one. We just do not because of
time and coordination reasons. we have a larger backlog of issues than
plan for the future currently.
This is me asking specifically what is everybody working on. I got no response. Later in the thread I suggested that you just make small wiki page with a list of devs and a list of projects. The devs just fill it in when they have a few moments. Still I haven't any answers as to what is being done in 1.5. So, no, Dirk, being on the development list does not clue you in much more than not being on the list. The CVS list is the only place to find out what is in 1.5 but it isn't exactly the friendliest user interface.

I don't want to be so down about this. But it's not like this is the first time I've asked what's going on? Although this again astray for the topic at hand.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 04/10/07 04:48pm
By: Dirk

Quote by: jmucchiello

what have you done since 12/31/2006 (release of 1.4.1)? I have no idea.


Well, you could consult the changelog - we've made it a habit to name-tag our contributions for the last couple of releases now.

Come on, Joe. What is all this really about?

bye, Dirk

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 04/10/07 11:13pm
By: jmucchiello

What's this about? It's about people not wanting to see what looks like advertising in the featured story on the geeklog homepage. Everything else is just the floodgate of other things that have been bothering folks for a while now. I didn't know where the changlog (called history) file was until this thread. And it is a mix of projects and bug fixes with no structure. Better than nothing, sure. But not very satisfying.

And finally, this is why I've ratcheted it up a few notches. At the risk of seeming childish, I give you this:

Quote by: Dirk

I guess I should have mentioned that the 3 students who successfully completed their 1.x projects have indicated that they will be sticking around. In other words, we just got 3 new core developers.

Do they have checkin rights to the entire Geeklog CVS tree? If not, they aren't really core devs.

If they do, then it's nice to know now that someone wanting to become a dev just needs to sign up for the summer of code. Posting on the community website daily and submitting patches doesn't get you an invite. Nor does reading the cvs mailing list and submitting code reviews from the checkins.

I've never asked to be a dev. And I doubt the GSOC kids did either. Open source is all about recognition. Feeling like an outsider is not being recognized.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 05/10/07 01:15pm
By: Benta

I didn't know where the changlog (called history) file was until this thread.


A link to it is one of the things that show up when you install GL. I have seen it so many times I am almost annoyed by it.



If they do, then it's nice to know now that someone wanting to become a dev just needs to sign up for the summer of code.


No. These kids did a little more. They finished their jobs well and displayed an interest.


Open source is all about recognition. Feeling like an outsider is not being recognized.


I don't even know many of the names of the GL core team. I think you'd have to do a search somewhere in gl.net to maybe find a story where they are listed. Some members, like mevans - and perhaps you -, seem to be very well recognized without appearing to be in the core team. It isn't an honorary position.

I've never asked to be a dev.


Seems like this might actually be your problem. It is an easy one to fix.


Re: nexPro

Posted on: 07/10/07 08:51am
By: jmucchiello

Quote by: Benta

Seems like this might actually be your problem. It is an easy one to fix.

My experience with joining most private "clubs" is if there isn't a publicly specified manner on how to become a "member", then becoming a member is usually by invitation only. It could easily be seen as rude to ask to become a member. Perhaps I should have asked "how do you become a core dev" earlier. But that returns to those feelings of being an outsider.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 07/10/07 01:51pm
By: LWC

Well, I don't know about you, but if I'm ever invited to what I call "the inner circle", then I'll just tell them sorry, I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.

Just kidding (coudn't resist using this Marx quote and also hopefully cheer things up)... :wink:

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 11/10/07 11:51am
By: etegration

can we concentrate on the topic? i read from top and on till i stop reading, it's becoming a wish list thread to me more than what has NexPro got to do with Geeklog and i did not miss the part of 2000 forms and 20k workflow tasks and all but i agree with "laugh", it's a sold out feeling to me too. No one has to know Dirk or Blaine. It's geeklog that put people here and i believe most serious guys here would have tried alternatives like the aforementioned joomla, wordpress, etc etc, i sticked to geeklog for it's emphasis on security but other smaller sites, i run them off wordpress which does not need so much work on me like photo blog etc.

So wish list - please post new threads.

Developers questions - post new threads too.

I do not agree with the association of a commercial entity on Geeklog, let alone the main page. The suggestion of having a commercial link, fair enough, ok with that but mixing developing portal parts to slapping the company you work for on the main page is just over the line bnut that's just me.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 11/10/07 04:38pm
By: lancelotdulac

I do not agree with the association of a commercial entity on Geeklog, let alone the main page. The suggestion of having a commercial link, fair enough, ok with that but mixing developing portal parts to slapping the company you work for on the main page is just over the line bnut that's just me.


Personally, I think the Geeklog site should be about all things Geeklog, commercial or not. I feel we should support all entities that support our continued growth, regardless of whether or not they are commercial. The Open Sourceness of linux was not hurt by it's huge commercial success, so there is no reason this will affect the Open Sourceness of Geeklog.

Whether or not it should appear on the front page, in my opinion, is up to the site moderators. The aforementioned Joomla does not look like it has any commercial information on the main page, but there is plenty of commercial information in a lot more than just their links section.

So go Geeklog and go Commercial Geeklog support!!! :chestslam:

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 11/10/07 06:45pm
By: machinari

Quote by: lancelotdulac


Personally, I think the Geeklog site should be about all things Geeklog, commercial or not.


Heck yeah! I agree 100%. Articles like the one in question display Geeklog's flexibility, extensibility, adaptability, reliability, versatility, viability, and a whole bunch of other bilities I can't think of just now -- In a word, its potential.

besides that, I wonder what makes anyone think they have the right to question what ought or ought not be discussed in a featured article on a site that is not their own. I know I know... opensource community blah blah blah... If, for example, I was the admin of this site and thought to myself that putting up a featured article on the benefits of Joomla was a good idea, it's really nobody's business but mine whether it is or not. If my site or product suffers or benefits from such a decision, it's still nobody's business but mine.
Where would you draw the line between what is acceptable content in a featured story on this site and what isn't? oh, wait.. it's not up to you.

...and so what if money is mentioned? sell out? what does that mean? gimme a break. open source doesn't mean free. it means open source.
:blahblah:

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 01:42am
By: Anonymous

Except one problem. However, it can be easily solved by finally making my patch official: A public dummy site mail and a protected real site mail[/p]

This is, as I thought I told you already, in CVS since weeks. It therefore will be public with the next release.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 03:02am
By: Anonymous

Here is my opinion to what has been stateed here:

GL Mythbusters, Episode 1

http://www.geeklog.net/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=78913

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 03:39am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: jmucchiello
[Oliver wrote]In reply to Joe Mucchiello on Aug 12, 2007
> See, now this is odd. Having documented plans make Geeklog look better
> to people seeing it for the first time. People like to know where the
> software will be tomorrow. Geeklog is not a commercial entity but you
> sell to folks. Anything that provides them peace of mind should be
> front and center on the Geeklog homepage. People outside the inner
> circle need to be able to plan for their own usage of Geeklog. Having
> plans makes our lives easier. I'm a user and I'd like to know where
> Geeklog is going. Are you saying it isn't worth your time to keep
> people in the know?

well as I said, if you have more things to do than you have time to, you
have to set priorities. and between fixing bugs and writing code for the
next version that is already decided to be implemented, no-one had done
so far the concentrated effort of creating such a roadmap. I fully agree
with you that it would be better to have one. We just do not because of
time and coordination reasons. we have a larger backlog of issues than
plan for the future currently.
This is me asking specifically what is everybody working on. I got no response. [/p]


Wrong. This was not you asking "What are you working on right now?"
This was you saying "Why dont you write down and update regularly what you are programming on?"

Thats a huge difference - for me, who is supposed to answer.
The one means I tell you the current 1 project, the other is I have to deliver a weekly report.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 03:42am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: jmucchiello

I didn't know where the changlog (called history) file was until this thread.



Well I cannot remember you asking for that one...

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 08:01am
By: LWC


This is, as I thought I told you already, in CVS since weeks. It therefore will be public with the next release.

I don't recall you ever saying that, but hooray! Thanks! Big Grin

Do you know about any of my other patches? :wink:

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 10:03am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: LWC


This is, as I thought I told you already, in CVS since weeks. It therefore will be public with the next release.

I don't recall you ever saying that, but hooray! Thanks! Big Grin

Do you know about any of my other patches? :wink:



I do not remeber all of them, maybe if you name them I can give you a definite "no" :-)

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 11:01am
By: drshakagee

I have worked on many projects with Geeklog, when I first started I felt I was welcomed to the community right away. People were helpful friendly and full of suggestions.

I think just the fact that Geeklog is being used in successful commercial ventures is great evidence of it's power and flexibility. Why not promote this powerful evidence?

Personally I want to thank Blaine and his company for giving Geeklog much needed credibility (there is another bility for you). Now I do see the issues people are having with this article being the "featured article", but I also believe that if I wrote an important article that the site modirators wouldn't think twice about dropping this Nexpro article down a spot. My solution to the community members who are complaining is simple: come up with some Geeklog news that is bigger then the Nexpro story.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 06:00pm
By: Jokke_K

There is a long way from "featured article" to a reliable partner. I've seen quite a many companies with "very smart" business model, but nexPRO looks very smart. Why I'm talking about this in this thread? I sent an inquiry last week to nexPro with just couple of simple questions and I haven't get any answer. I was ready to pay couple of hundred euros to get something new (nexpro as seen in their site and even more if first stage would be succesful. Just big words in Canada...

Why this kind of "company" is "featured" by Geeklog administrators?

If they don't have enough people to answer quotations, then no "featured ads".

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 12/10/07 06:12pm
By: Blaine

Hum ... we have not seen your request as we would have followed up immediately. I am very visible in the community online so it should have been easy to reach me. We have replied to all the posts for information on our Nextide site forums but I very much want to know how you tried to contact us as there may be an issue we are not aware of. This is a new site and there could be an issue that we have not seen.

I have sent you an email via your profile as well.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 18/10/07 09:10am
By: etegration

move to other CMS if you're not happy. I did. http://moonshine.homedns.org:2655/wp-gl/articles/migrating-geeklog-to-wordpress

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 20/10/07 06:59pm
By: Anonymous

Well this is disappointing !

Some standard responses have been
"things are in development" or "move on to what you like" etc etc

GL has been
- most slow on development, version 2 announced so long ago and still not in sight
- boasting of tight security proved false again and again
- "content" canNOT be "managed" - admin cannot change name of author, users cannot submit image with a story directly, users cannot edit comments to a story
- web is changing : there is no per user "blog", there is no ability where users can have their own groups or communitites, see drupal.org
- the community performance is poor, whatever may be the reason, see drupal forums for example

There may be A LOT of users still using GL for the have to and there may be some developers/ soc students, and some new users adopting drupal BUT really its dead compared to
Drupal, Joomla, or e107. GL failed in packt and numbers of soc students are miserably low.

In this background there was really no need of such story infront page !


Re: nexPro

Posted on: 20/10/07 09:09pm
By: Anonymous

Quote by: Vim

Well this is disappointing !
GL has been
- most slow on development, version 2 announced so long ago and still not in sight


The development of GL 1 and 2 are two different issues that you cannot throw into one sentence. You proabably do not know that GL2 is redevelopped from scratch and will not even replace GL1 as it is. To say that GL as a whole is slow because GL2 takes a long time is the same as stating that the development CPUs is slow because quantum computing research does not produce any commercial products. There was never a concrete release day for GL2 announced. GL1 development was always up to speed, and the release cycles not slower than any other CMS. Rather many users complain that the cycles are too short.

Quote by: Vim


- boasting of tight security proved false again and again


You seem to live in a world that is far away from the reality of software security. Software security is - and cannot - be about delivering a system that is perfect and will never be compromised but much more about the frequency and severity of problems and the speed of update releases. I am quite sure that nobody can complain about that with GL. All fixes have been delivered within 24hrs or less. If you say GL is insecure because sites that have not been updated since the last 3 version releases got hijacked, you seem to contradict your own statement that updates are slow.

Quote by: Vim


- "content" canNOT be "managed" - admin cannot change name of author, users cannot submit image with a story directly, users cannot edit comments to a story


You can surely NOT go to any other software package and pinpoint things that GL can and they cannot and then say that they are not worthy beeing called a CMS? You are also forgetting that plugins have extended the mentioned issues in the past already, others are not possible with other packages either.

Quote by: Vim


- web is changing : there is no per user "blog", there is no ability where users can have their own groups or communitites, see drupal.org


I would never compare two systems that have completely different scopes in their target audience and functionality requirements and therfore calling one "bad". You are saying pick-up trucks are bad because they lack the toilet of a campervan.

Quote by: Vim


- the community performance is poor, whatever may be the reason, see drupal forums for example
[...] BUT really its dead compared to Drupal, Joomla, or e107. GL failed in packt and numbers of soc students are miserably low.


In general I do not see why one product is bad because another has a lot more users. Thats the same as saying windows is better than linux.

Quote by: Vim


There may be A LOT of users still using GL for the have to and there may be some developers/ soc students, and some new users adopting drupal


You are saying that that there are no users switching away from drupal?

Quote by: Vim


In this background there was really no need of such story infront page !


Please explain the link between the prior statements and this one, I fail to see it. If what you say was relevant and true, there would have been even more reason to report about a larger base for GL usage/support. Only if you own the market already at a large base (something like windows) and do so for good reasons (not like windows) you do not have to report about the fact that others think the software is good. That is why MS is reporting if some Government or NGO is switching to Windows. That is why Linux Distros are doing the same. Neither of them has the whole market for a good reason OR the good reason and the whole market.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 20/10/07 11:22pm
By: samstone

The posting has gotten off topic. Going back to the topic, I am encouraged to see the posting of nexPro. Being busy, I wouldn't have noticed it if it was not posted as the feature article.

From the beginning, Geeklog was not developed to compete with other CMS's. To my understanding, it started out as a product of someone's hobby, and a bunch of professionals joined in later to improve it for their professional use. It has become the most versatile free open source engine for professional dynamic website development.

So to me, nexPro is an expected outcome. I wish success to Blaine. He is a great programmer, though he can use some assistance in improving his customer service and support.

I develop websites for religious and non-profit organizations, including sites for organizations fighting for human rights and democracy in totalitarian nations. Without GL, they wouldn't be able to afford the features they need for their websites.

I can see that nexPro can make my job even easier, and it will make it more affordable for the non-profits to build high-end websites.

Sam

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 01:55am
By: Anonymous

Quote by: Vim

Well this is disappointing !

Some standard responses have been
"things are in development" or "move on to what you like" etc etc

GL has been
- most slow on development, version 2 announced so long ago and still not in sight
- boasting of tight security proved false again and again
- "content" canNOT be "managed" - admin cannot change name of author, users cannot submit image with a story directly, users cannot edit comments to a story
- web is changing : there is no per user "blog", there is no ability where users can have their own groups or communitites, see drupal.org
- the community performance is poor, whatever may be the reason, see drupal forums for example

There may be A LOT of users still using GL for the have to and there may be some developers/ soc students, and some new users adopting drupal BUT really its dead compared to
Drupal, Joomla, or e107. GL failed in packt and numbers of soc students are miserably low.

In this background there was really no need of such story infront page !



move on. It'll be more admins or more moderators coming in and saying everything and anything and even point for point attacks and counter attacks, it'll be endless. Don't waste your time, spend your time trying other CMS that do not tie themselves so tightly with commercial entities.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 02:44am
By: Anonymous

@tokyohead
That GL2 is developed from scratch is known to me. But after
years and years it has remained "scratch" Smile
Infact Tony has said there is very little chance of it happening.

>> Software security : why I say the "boasting" went flat will be
nicely evident if you have followed this site. Do you need quotes
from statements made by this sites developers/maintainers? I can
give you the uri.

Regarding rest of your points : THEY'RE full of sick or dead analogies.
Take for example any web email system : it needs to have at least
inbox, compose+attachment etc i.e. the basic features.

GL as a CMS does not allow the most basic things i.e. allowing
an user to submit image with story, or edit her/his comments to
a story.
Windows and linux are two separate platforms. Drupal and GL is not.
If you are not too stubborn look at drupal org, download it
run it - I guess you will
not like to shift but there is no harm in getting inspired !

@samstone
>>It has become the most versatile free open source engine
>>for professional dynamic website development.
How, sir ??

Come back to this thread after 5 years and see
whether your opinions remain same :-)


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. There are others like me who beleive
that the story in question do NOT deserve place in the first page.

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 04:53am
By: jmucchiello

I have issues with Geeklog development but this is over the top:
Quote by: Vim


GL has been
- most slow on development, version 2 announced so long ago and still not in sight

Geeklog 2 should just be renamed. It is its own project and is only related to Geeklog by developer crossover.
I've address the low visibility issue before.
- boasting of tight security proved false again and again
This is so off-base I don't know where to start.
- "content" canNOT be "managed" - admin cannot change name of author, users cannot submit image with a story directly, users cannot edit comments to a story
- web is changing : there is no per user "blog", there is no ability where users can have their own groups or communitites, see drupal.org
These are semi-legitimate gripes but I think the real problem here is philosophical. Geeklog is admin oriented. It is designed for the web admin to get a website up and running for his users in an orderly fashion. Other CMS and social networking software is user oriented. The point of the software is to enable users to be creative and have fun. The needs of the community outweigh the convenience of the admin. This is my problem with Geeklog. I want it to be capable of both: Admin's have ease of use and users can feel they are part of social network. And therein also is some of the problems I run into with the core devs. Stuff I say should be added to core sometimes reduces admin superiority for user comfort. (Not that anyone would ever use that terminology in such a discussion.)
- the community performance is poor, whatever may be the reason, see drupal forums for example
These boards seem quite lively. Questions are answered in a timely manner. What more do you need?

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 05:24am
By: Dirk

Just wanted to point out that

"Blacklisted by GL for the above post"

is, of course, utter nonsense. Nobody's being blocked here, trollish as they may be ...

bye, Dirk

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 06:04am
By: Anonymous

@ Dirk
I got this message when I came to make my second post Smile

Error 403

We're sorry, but we could not fulfill your request for /forum/createtopic.php on this server.

Your Internet Protocol address is listed on a blacklist of addresses involved in malicious or

illegal activity. See the listing below for more details on specific blacklists and removal

procedures.

Your technical support key is: d2d6-8368-1366-73cd

You can use this key to fix this problem yourself.

If you are unable to fix the problem yourself, please contact noreply at geeklog.net and

be sure to provide the technical support key shown above.


@jmucchiello

> Geeklog 2 should just be renamed.
Then just rename, instead of wasting time from 2005 :wink:

> so off-base
Confused: Tell me if you need the base-uri

> real problem here is philosophical. Geeklog is admin oriented

philosophical or logical, whatever, the real probelm is there .
Any CMS is user oriented too as it is the users who use them Smile
:rtfm: No where GL mentions it its orientation is for admins

> Questions are answered

But NOT solved

Must we all at GL play ostrich and really, really NOT take a hard look at other cms at least
those who got chosen at the packtpub http://www.packtpub.com/2007-open-source-cms-award-finalists? Either we completely overhaul within a deadline in mind or we are dead !

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 06:19am
By: Dazzy

That code is generated from the spam protection routines on the site,

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 06:25am
By: Anonymous

:rtfm: I was not spamming Smile

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 06:38am
By: Dirk

That was just Bad Behavior. It seems the "fix it yourself" link doesn't work at the moment so I can't tell you off-hand what it didn't like. If you tell me the IP address you were using at the time, I can look it up.

bye, Dirk

Re: nexPro

Posted on: 21/10/07 06:45am
By: Anonymous

We have dynamic IP and I do not know what IP was at that time.
It will be nice indeed if Bad Behavior behaves nicely or
at least "fix it yourself" link doesn't fail to work at important times Smile

Geeklog - Forum
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