Forum Subject: Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 06:22am
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
Hi,
I have installed geeklog because I have heard it is stable. I suffered a lot with so called great packages ever since last Chrismas! Most of them are fine for kids that wish to practice their hackers skills.
I have some gripes against geeklog too. What is this all about? I find it rather limited. I look at my page and wonder. Why would anyone want to come to this barren territory again. To use the calendar? or to read a couple os strories?
Then I find the documentation is ludicrously poor. The explanations on the config file are full of circulat definitions. I am told that locale which is set to en-gb is for the locale. Well I am not in en-gb. What am I supposed to do? Lighr a fire and send up smoke signals?
Static pages. I created one. I do not see it anyplace on the front page. I guess it must be secret pages?
I can go on and on.
My advice to the makers of this allegedly fine product ought to consider users that do not have the time or the patience to immerse themselves the geeklog cult but wish to just do the job. Don't be shy, spell it out spoonfeeding manner., What on earth are static pages, how can use them
Conlcuding, yes I am grateful for the free software. Don't tell me that because of that I should keep my mouth shut. That logic is for morons that cannot chew gum and walk at the same time.
Sorry for the typos
MIchael
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 11:56am
By: Tony
Michael,
I will try my best not to sound defensive as I think you have some valid gripes but your input largely is useless. Here is why...
First, I am sure you appreciate and respect that all you have with Geeklog is done with volunteer time. Nobody is paying us to write code and nobody is paying us to write docs. I promise you the day all that comes you can expect some big turn arounds in both.
To address your first question, why would anybody come to your site? Well, quite simply, it will be for content. We only provide you mechanisms for publishing content via the core GL system or through third party plugins. Want a unique wrinkle? Have an itch to scratch? Great, there are ways within Geeklog to facilitate much of this. Just be willing to ask 'how' in either our mailing lists, on this site or live in IRC...our support is tough to beat, especially for an open soruce project. Furthermore, This project isn't run by a lone renegade. It is a team effort, a global team effort and each of us is willing to help anybody implement their GL site(s) including you despite the unconstructive gripes you've just given.
Then you said "Then I find the documentation is ludicrously poor". Really? Well again, documentation is a volunteer effort and what you say is a slap in the face to a few people that worked really hard to get what you see in place. Documentation, like our code, is always evolving. We would be more than open to suggestions to improving our documentation but we can't do so with flaming comments like yours. Get specific. Or at least identify the sections of paragraphs that you felt really tripped you up. Simply rambling on about why you hate Geeklog is not constructive and, to be honest, boils my blood a bit. Us developers give time that could be spent with our wives, kids, friends and, instead, devote to building what we feel is a pretty damn good package yet people like you can't give a few minutes to give *useful* feedback. So to recap this paragraph, give specific, useful feedback on how to improve Geeklog and we'd be happy to consider the changes.
Static Pages. You created one! Great! I created an HTML page on my site. Can you find it? No. Unless you have the ability to read the mind of a web server you will not be able to easily find HTML pages unless they are linked to in another document. Same thing for static pages. How about creating a block and adding a link to it there or, if you theme supports it, you can click the checkbox to add it to the header automatically for you. It's that simple.
"I can go on and on."...well so can I ;-)
"...consider users that do not have the time or the patience to immerse themselves the geeklog cult but wish to just do the job". Geeklog like any half-way feature rich package, requires sometime to learn. [sarcasm]My personally apologies for not making it so you can have you site running fully customized in five minutes. What was I thinking?[/sarcasm]. The fact you liken Geeklog to a 'cult' is ridiculous. Nobody is asking for your first born sons or organizing mass suicides on remote farms in Iowa ;-) We are just a few good people who enjoy coding, enjoy PHP and enjoy building something people find useful.
"Don't be shy, spell it out spoonfeeding manner., What on earth are static pages, how can use them". Us, shy? Yeah, right. From the static pages README:
"This Static Page Geeklog Plug-in is the source code and database that is used to for creating semi-static pages in Geeklog quickly." To expand, this plugins is meant to publish pages that will not change very often yet are searchable by GL's search engine. They are ideal for privacy policies, general documentation and other misc. content that won't change very often and provide you a slick way to wrap your look-and-feel around it instead of having to do all this via FTP or ssh using HTML.
Finally for my favorite comment you made: "That logic is for morons that cannot chew gum and walk at the same time."
Asking us to improve things and then ending your rant with this shows your arrogance. Everything, I have said to this point about being willing to take any specific gripes you have into consideration is true. Hell, I personally would even be willing to work with you one-on-one in IRC to overcome any problems you are having. But I can promise you at the end of the day you and I will not be sharing any beers. Your attitude and ineptness at communications is unbelievable. By the sounds of it you are the IT Messiah. I am guessing that every bit of code you write, like a score from Mozart, is perfect the first time around and the documentation for everything you do is impecable.
I'm reminded of the familiar slogan, "Like Mike, if I could be like Mike!"---The reason people blame things on previous generations is that there's only one other choice.
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 12:24pm
By: LordBaron
I am a big fan of open source projects. While most of the time I am not able to contribute becuase of my lack of knowledge or lack of time, I respect the simple idea that people do these things for free. This is a project people are working on simply becuase they like it. If you like the project and find faults, explain it to the developers, they are usually pretty willing to listen. When you don't like a project, there is no need to come to thier website and tell them how much it sucks, you simply do not use it. I personally don't like the PHP-Nuke project, but I don't go to thier site and post flames about how much it sucks becuase I appreciate the effort put into such a large project. Show a little respect for what these people have done with their own free time.---Boredom's not a burden anyone should bear. Constant over stimulation numbs me and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 12:28pm
By: alinford
I am with Tony on this one. I do not think that GL is built for the person that can't set the timer on their VCR. It cannot be everything to everyone. It is great for me however. The documentation is not the greatest, but the community is very supportive and the config doc has most of the info that is needed for the basic install.
I use it for a couple of sites, including a site for my family. They think I am a web guru now thanks to this. Using GL is a little like staying in a Hoiday Inn Express - You may not be an expert, but they will think you are.
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 12:37pm
By: tomw
I really do not understand people like this. Did he also post a rant on the websites of all the other packages? Is he asking for his money back?
I remember as a young man, my father made me get registered to vote as soon as I was able and then bugged me until I voted every-time I could. He said I could not gripe about how the country was run unless I at least voted.
To those who gripe about Geeklog, I say, you do not have the right to gripe, until you make your contribution. But you say 'I am not a programmer'! You can write prose can't you? As everyone is quick to point out, good documentation or translations of existing documentation is lacking. But no, you will gripe until you get Geeklog running and then you will go on your merry way.
TomW
Not anonymous like the whiners.
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 12:55pm
By: ScurvyDawg
I am totally in agreement with Tony. The critisism given is in no way constructive and shows a complete lack of respect. When asking for assistance you should tell the people you are asking for assistance what you have done thus far to assist yourself.
The Docs are good and the product rocks. If you want someone to do everything for you, hire one. The way you state your expectations are completely inappropriate. You should read what you post before you click submit because from reading the post above you come off as someone nobody would be willing to deal with.
Saying things like "I look at my page and wonder. Why would anyone want to come to this barren territory again." makes no sense. It is like building a house and yelling at the lumber supplier that he has not laid your foundation. The content of the page is up to you. Give your users a reason to come back. You can't rely on someone else to build your page for you, you have to do the work.
Think!
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 02:38pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
It is non-productive to start complaining without being specific on what the problem is and provide a recommended solution. The developers here are doing this work without any compensation, and they are not mind-readers.
Geeklog and other CMS' merely provide some tools to make it easier to create and maintain a website. Each of us, that includes YOU, are responsible for the site's content. If you're wondering "why would anyone want to come to this barren territory again", then the problem is the content which is YOUR responsibility.
Building a successful website takes time, creativity, and energy. It's not just slapping some info from various news feeds or slurping up another person's WebPages. If you don't want to dedicate time and effort to building your site's content, then take it down and do something else. Alternatively, you can PAY someone else to run your site and provide interesting content.
As for the documentation, this is an area which could be improved upon. Why haven't YOU done anything to help out here? You didn't even spend five minutes outlining specific areas that could be improved upon. How basic of a document do you need? Be specific on which areas are too far above your head or not covered enough.
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 03:25pm
By: richschmidt
Sheesh.
Here I thought we were going to get some QUALITY hate mail, and all we get is this rubbish!
Where do I write to complain about the sub-par quality of the hate mail around here?
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 04:57pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
This guy sounds familiar.
Some people in this world are just spoiled. Or, like the Book says, "Don't throw pearls to the swine." He doesn't even know what he is getting.
Just a waste of time!
Rocky
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 05:11pm
By: Anonymous (BluePheenix)
This guy is an idiot -- that or like someone else said, he can't set his VCR. As a reverse testimonty, I got it going in a few hours.
I heard about the GeekLog software 2 days ago from a friend that does web development. I Found out I needed to install a bunch of other stuff first. Did I mention I'm not running a Linux Box? Why be simple? So, I add that to the complication.
I found PHP, MySQL, Apache in one neat package, thank you http://www.firepages.com.au/!! I installed it onto my XP Box by double clicking (after the D/L). I NEVER read the docs. Just clicked away.
Today, I D/L'd GL -- the purpose of this lunch-time project, dropped it onto my XP Box, configured it, hacked at it to get some quality play time in, D/L a weather plug-in (block?). and got it going too.
I did all this without really understanding the base software at all!
Tonight, I'll do something really cool like develop a theme, create cool icons or just scrounge some more on the Net.
I heard about the GeekLog software 2 days ago from a friend that does web development. I Found out I needed to install a bunch of other stuff first. Did I mention I'm not running a Linux Box? Why be simple? So, I add that to the complication.
I found PHP, MySQL, Apache in one neat package, thank you http://www.firepages.com.au/!! I installed it onto my XP Box by double clicking (after the D/L). I NEVER read the docs. Just clicked away.
Today, I D/L'd GL -- the purpose of this lunch-time project, dropped it onto my XP Box, configured it, hacked at it to get some quality play time in, D/L a weather plug-in (block?). and got it going too.
I did all this without really understanding the base software at all!
Tonight, I'll do something really cool like develop a theme, create cool icons or just scrounge some more on the Net.
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 05:59pm
By: bcbrock
I came across geeklog just 1 month ago, knowing NOTHING about
MySQL, or PHP, and with only a basic working knowledge of HTML. I
was able to get a good site going! Is this person's home library filled
only with pop-up books? Good grief! Yes, it takes a little time and
effort, but to my way of thinking, that what gives you the right to be
proud of what you've accomplished!
I've found that the GL community has been extremely helpful and friendly, and for that, I'm very grateful! Thanks especially to Tony, Tom, Danny, and Blaine - those who've extended to me the greatest assistance. You guys are awesome and I hope that the occasional nay-sayer doesn't distract you too much from those of us who genuinly appreciate all your efforts!
Documentations
Posted on: 02/13/03 08:06pm
By: geKow
I must agree about the little "poor" documentation. As a non english, non geek non "hacker" I had some troubles, especially on "go to lib_common.php and replace..." parts.
I am very dedicated to another open source project (geoshell, a great windows shell replacement, btw and I liked to participate in some way even if I can't program. As we had a lack of documentation too, we decided to setup a wiki documentation what is a web based documentation with a quite easy and simlyfied taging and read/write(!) access for everyone. So every user who is in the mood to help, can write something he wants to explain in his words.
We had a quite good success this way. If you are interested, you may look at http://docs.geoshell.com
Of course you need some(one)? who spent the webspace (can be sf.net, but it's a bit unreliable in the past, (that's why we moved the docs from there) and some(one)? who setup and maintains the wiki, but it really could be worth the effort (IMHO)
geKow
non "hacker" I had some troubles, especially on "go to lib_common.php and replace..." parts.
I am very dedicated to another open source project (geoshell, a great windows shell replacement, btw and I liked to participate in some way even if I can't program. As we had a lack of documentation too, we decided to setup a wiki documentation what is a web based documentation with a quite easy and simlyfied taging and read/write(!) access for everyone. So every user who is in the mood to help, can write something he wants to explain in his words.
We had a quite good success this way. If you are interested, you may look at http://docs.geoshell.com
Of course you need some(one)? who spent the webspace (can be sf.net, but it's a bit unreliable in the past, (that's why we moved the docs from there) and some(one)? who setup and maintains the wiki, but it really could be worth the effort (IMHO)
geKow
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 08:36pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
This guy should trade his computer with a Nintendo game console...
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/13/03 10:13pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
I think he might be a little confused with a Nintendo. A lot of buttons
the same color, and what the hell is all this A B stuff above them. Start =
Pause, are these people insane?
He would be asking Nintendo to build a different controller with the buttons
labled for each game, rather then taking the time to remember what each
button does.
I really doubt he would be willing to help with the documentation. He
just wants it all done for him. Go get a commercial product and complain
to them, at least you would have contributed something to the makers of
that $$.
I really doubt he would be willing to help with the documentation. He
just wants it all done for him. Go get a commercial product and complain
to them, at least you would have contributed something to the makers of
that $$.Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/14/03 10:32am
By: Anonymous (BillShiver)
And I thought I was stupid. And I was right. But, this character needs an Etch-a-Sketch. Only two knobs to fool with. And if you get it wrong you just shake it and start over.
As a newcomer to all this I appreciate the hard work of the GL folks and I've learned much from browsing here. Every dumb question I've asked has been answered promptly and clearly.
Plus the price is definitely right.
Bill
Why am I wasting my time commenting this. Because ...
Posted on: 02/14/03 11:21am
By: Robin
this is not the first time you can read such useless stories submitted by Anonymous arseholes and everytime they start huge debate on the part of THE GREATEST GL COMMUNITY (I love you guys all though we haven't met). This is good even great cause you can see the true commitment. On the other hand we all know that GL is GREAT (The true value defends itself). Next time why not ignore such posts by not commenting them (maybe someone should delete them before submiting ;-). This is simply not worthy, however I had this urge to write my share.<br><br>
And now a few words from our sponsor:<br>
Up yours Mr. Anonymous Wanker!!!
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/14/03 02:44pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
>But I can promise you at the end of the day you and I will not be sharing any beers
Hi, I enjoyed your letter. You are ok, and geehlog is ok. I still have it running on my page, and am trying to learn more about it. I did not mean to be rude, but I guess I was. I am sorry. Yes, it is cruel to criticise people who work on volunterer basis.
I will not read the rest of the responses. I am sure they loose their temper...At another site I was called all kind of names by the support team...That is not nice... You are a gentleman, an I would drink a beer with you.
Best of luck to you and geeklog, and my site too. And to the rest of the guys who wrote and yelled, calm down.
Why am I wasting my time commenting this. Because ...
Posted on: 02/14/03 03:45pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
If this guy lives in the USA, he is excising his constitutional right to speak anonymously. That is a valued and protected right which neither you nor anyone else here can take away.
Many famous men like Benjamin Franklin, former President John Madison, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and many others who molded the USA in its early beginnings distributed their political and philosophical works anonymously. Most of them hid their identities for decades with some going to their graves without revealing their role. No one should make another feel ashamed for exercising his country's constitutional rights.
Most people who speak anonymously speak freer and more honest than those who put some name on their post. Perhaps you don't agree with his opinion which I don't but he is entitled to speak anoymously. As you can see, I am exercising my right to do the same. It doesn't matter if my name is Mike, Jim, or Mary. I could put anything in a registration here, and it doesn't change the meaning of a post's content.
Why am I wasting my time commenting this. Because ...
Posted on: 02/14/03 04:23pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
Then how do we know it was e.g. Madison or any other outstanding figure from US history ;-)
Publius
Publius
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/19/03 04:30pm
By: Anonymous (bulldog)
It continues to amaze me at how many idiots are out there. If you have nothing better to do than post trash [anonymously at that], you can borrow my 9 MM, put it to your head and pull the trigger. Hell, I'll watch if you want me to. I don't get it... I really don't. These guys have put God only knows how many hours into this kick ass project, share it with whoever wants it and all you can do is whine and gripe because you have to actually learn something. Damn I am sooo sorry... Wait. I'm sorry... someone twisted your arm and made you download, setup and run Geeklog right? What was I thinking... the one thing [well actually more than one] I wish that could be changed with the internet is being able to see these people and make them step up to the plate and not be some wanna be tough guy posting an anonymous post... what did I do with that box of tissues? SEMPER FI...
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/20/03 12:54am
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
LOL, this guy is a fool, the first CMS I learned to use was geeklog and I found it easy to use, and I had no prior knowledge of Gekklog, PHP or mySQL, sure it has its flaws, but all programs do, the only way you can get something to do exactly what you want is to design it yourself (or cheat like I eventually did, I hacked Geeklog and PHP-nuke together, not the most elegant solution but one that worked!). And I can guarantee you guys the support I received from the geeklog guys was 100% better than that of PHP-nuke.
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/20/03 05:24pm
By: Anonymous (okki)
Respect to Tony, holding his peace while he's entiled to flame, and for him having the time and courtesy to reply to this ridiculous rant.
And of course respect to all the GL contributors, I'm one of thos GL users who have a fully working system, just to be proud to have it, just to see an OpenSource project in such a fine state, to hell with content!
And of course respect to all the GL contributors, I'm one of thos GL users who have a fully working system, just to be proud to have it, just to see an OpenSource project in such a fine state, to hell with content!
Grz, Okki!
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/23/03 03:29am
By: etegration
this is a example of one static pages holding all the static pages i have! you can make use of it to do articles like i do with a table of content!
quit whinning!---http://www.etegration.com
http://www.itcow.com
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/23/03 06:14pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
Michael,
My advice is to go back to school and learn grammar and spelling.
There is only one thing worse than a whinger, a whinger who has no mastery of the language in which they choose to whinge. It undermines any shred of credibility (notwithstanding any shred of logic) they purport within there argument.
cheers
steve.
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/24/03 07:01am
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
The funny thing is I too have been in HTML for years and came upon GL sorts of by accident while looking for a better way to do a multi page site w/o the hassel of coding hundreds of pages. I bought a book from Kevin Yank and one from Wrox to learn php. I got frustrated and sick of making "hello world" pages on my osX server. So I gave GL the good ol' college try.
I must say people like Squatty and TomW have been more the paitent with my neophiteass and are getting my php feet wet. I love the way this community is so helpful. Sure I would too love to see better documentation and will someday my part to see that aspect of this through. Hell I can't code yet but i can make docs to respew what i learnd setting up gl and its various plugins.
What a nervy tyhing to dis the coolest opensource project on terra firma.
Look I still havent got my static pages thingy to work that well either but by no means wish to beeatch and moan about it. I'll just wait. Hey I am learning a lot about php just reading all the post and from people like squatty, blaine, tomw, and Dirk.
OK I said my stupid peice. Thanks to all of you who make geeklog great. I vote the first Geeklog Convention to be here in Hawaii with me. I'll make the Mai Tai's. Just don't invite that A$$hole.
Aloha,
DocRock
http://www.infophreak.com
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 02/24/03 06:04pm
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
Well my two cents is pretty much echoing what has been said here already but because I believe in GL and will donate every bit of Monopoly money I have (since I have no real money to speak of) I thought I would hold up my sign that says "GL ROCKS".
Nowhere else in cyberspace have I ever found a more helpful, patient, generous group of open source developers that have held my hand and walked me through even the most basic tasks to get GL fine tuned for my purpose.
People who rely on glitzy graphical layouts to lure users to return to their site simply will never be happy with a product that requires content. And even then, his users will eventually see that there is no substance to his site and take their browsers elswewhere.
The bottom line? Geeklog is the best "content management" application out there - free or otherwise - and if you ain't got content to manage you have no right to complain.
Keep up the awesome work, GL developers!
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 03/10/03 06:24am
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
Someone mentioned good translations of documentations, etc. are missing? I'm a translator with some time off in between, if you guys ever need some help, feel free to ask!
Best regards,
~chrissy~
Office@translation-now.net
Static pages and more gripes
Posted on: 04/05/03 02:30am
By: Anonymous (Anonymous)
What i would like to point out is that alot of people who create sites spend hours upon hours making nice wizzy graphics.. which is all nice and that, but those sites lack content. Infact most of the websites on the internet lack good content. A CMS provides you with the ability to provide content, in a easy to access, and easy to manipulate and edit the content. To me a plain old boring white webpage, with non or little graphics and a heap of information is a better site than a site done in flash, made to look awesome, but with nothing really to actually look at apart from the graphics.
I'd also like to point out, that if your having a problem with the documentation, you can always read on other sites about geeklog, read on here, and use the famous tool called a search engine. Before you start saying how crap the documentation is. I think the documentation is good. I managed to get geeklog installed without problems, and so did loads of other people.
If you want to have the best of both worlds, i suggest you stick with something like geeklog, and look at the various plugins and extras for it. Other than that, you could just go back to frontpage and create everything by yourself.
Anyway, my site is www.bastardlabs.co.uk it has content, i shall, when i get time, make my own theme and contribute it to geeklog.net. Its about time people like yourself, stop just taking the free programs and whining at everyone when they cannot get it working. The information is there, if you can be bothered actually finding it.. This isn't a £200 microsoft product that has a nice little book that comes with it, on the other hand, it doesn't have as many problems as a £200 quid microsoft product.
Regards
Steve
I'd also like to point out, that if your having a problem with the documentation, you can always read on other sites about geeklog, read on here, and use the famous tool called a search engine. Before you start saying how crap the documentation is. I think the documentation is good. I managed to get geeklog installed without problems, and so did loads of other people.
If you want to have the best of both worlds, i suggest you stick with something like geeklog, and look at the various plugins and extras for it. Other than that, you could just go back to frontpage and create everything by yourself.
Anyway, my site is www.bastardlabs.co.uk it has content, i shall, when i get time, make my own theme and contribute it to geeklog.net. Its about time people like yourself, stop just taking the free programs and whining at everyone when they cannot get it working. The information is there, if you can be bothered actually finding it.. This isn't a £200 microsoft product that has a nice little book that comes with it, on the other hand, it doesn't have as many problems as a £200 quid microsoft product.
Regards
Steve