Welcome to Geeklog Wednesday, June 19 2013 @ 01:46 PM EDT
1/1: Would you run OSX on an Intel PC if Apple ported it across?
| yes YES NOW! |
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| Sure |
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| I'd Trial It |
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| On a Dual Boot |
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| Maybe OSXII |
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| Never! |
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| Lemon Curry? |
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The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
It\'s not my intention to start a troll but if you compare similar things and not the cheapest PC against the cheapest Mac, you\'ll realize that Apple\'s hardware isn\'t that expensive.
OK I\'m a Mac and OS X fan so I\'m partial. But using OS X, W2000 and Linux everyday I can tell you there\'s very little things missing on the Mac side for so many nicer details.
However, PCs are much better from a hardware point of view. If you compare what $3,000.00 will get you with a MAC and then compare what that will get you with a PC, PCs simply blow the mac away. Not to mention, Mac hardware is not only expensive, but offers only limited hardward upgrades.
So far apple\'s superior OS and loyal user base has kept it alive because people are willing to pay the very high premium for Mac hardware. But not for much longer. My partners and I use macs in our graphics studio, but 2 out of the three of us have decided that from now on, we will replace our macs with PCs since macs are just too expensive (photoshop, golive, etc. all run just as well on a pc).
The AMD v.s. Intel price battle and the availability of numerous chipset manufacturers has dramatically improved the price/performance ratio of PC hardware. As a result, the premium you pay for a mac compared to a PC is increasing rapidly and I think more and more mac users will begin to find that they can no longer justifiy the cost.
Also, most new technical innovations (DDR Ram, 266Mhz Bus, AGP, etc...etc.) are all PC innovations because the PC market has many competitors and the user base is large enough to absorb the R&D cost. Apple is just one company with a small user base. As time goes on they will continue to fall further and further behind and will (as they pretty much do now) just follow the PC hardware market\'s lead and release things like DDR Ram, etc.
So I think its inevitable that apple\'s os will need to run on PC hardware at some point so they can offer their users competitively priced hardware.
Sure this means you can just buy the apple OS and not the software which will cost mac some hardware sales. However, Mac can become like a Dell or a Gateway and still sell hardware. They can have their computer components made by independent manufacturers and bundled as Apple products and supported by them. Mac loyalists and people who like \"pretty hardware\" will be willing to pay a slight premium for Apple branded PC hardware.
Simply put, the hardware advantage of PCs will make the mac professional user base dwindle to the point where mac wont be able to survive by selling IMacs and IPods to college kids. They will need to switch to the PC platform to survive.
-----
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move
bodies.
Apple won't port OS X to an x86 based machine for several reasons:
1) Apple is the most profitable computer company in the world. Somehow apple has taken the process of building cool looking machines, with awesome spec sheets, and real world performance. and dropped the price... and not just because components cost less...
2) Mac OS X is uniquely grounded with the PowerPC G3 and G4 processors. Moreso the G4 than the G3, as you'll note with performance. The velocity engine on the G4 chips does wonders to the speed of the Aqua user interface, allowing it to run at some points almost 6 times the speed of an equivelant G3 based machine.
3) Apple is out to change the world. CISC (Core Instruction Set Computing) based processors have been manufactured for almost 30 years now. That's freakin old. RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computing) has only been around since the mid nineties, which gives Apple lots of legroom as the largest purchaser of PPC based chips. Also the PowerPC chips were designed from the bottom up knowing they were to be used in systems which would be sporting a graphical user interface. This gives another unique prospective since CISC based chips are still founded on the same pricipals of calculation they were 30 years ago.
4) Apple has always been an 'in house' company. While they've been shying away from that recently, it hasn't met with much enthusiasm from most 'in the know' Mac users, who all realize that Apple has lost some control over the quality of the product hardware wise in the past year. Apple is very enthusiastic about the open source Darwin base of OS X, and is happy that it runs on x86 based machines... however, OS X will not be ported because they simply couldn't justify writing the OS to work on that many different types of machines. Apple has been able to keep their OS more stable and ahead of its time for years by integrating the OS with the hardware that they create. Some see this as a weakness, but I see it as a strong suit, here's why:
{
Since Apple makes more innovative machines, they also make really creative and innovative software. They weren't the first to bring DVD-R to the desktop, but they wanted to wait to give consumers the ability to also burn CD's with the same drive, as well as give them a software package that could help them to easily put together an impressive DVD in just a few minutes. The same was with iTunes. While Apple admittedly was not the first company to bring CD burning to everyone, they brought the easiest way to burn CD's to anyone with a Mac. iTunes is fabulous (if you haven't tried it out yet stop by an AppleStore, or other retailer with a Mac), it really does simplify things a great deal. Data CD burning is built into the OS, so all the user has to do is insert a blank disc and the Os will prompt the user to give the disc a name, from there it's just ike moving files inbetween folders (literally).
Keeping the hardware controlled allows Apple the unique opportunity to make sure that the OS and the software work seamlessly. It also helps developers. Developers don't want to have to make sure their stuff works with this card and that, or this software or that external option... they just want it to work... Apple keeps this simple by providing an OS which is straight forward, and easy to develop for, as well as Hardware which is streamlined and only comes in certain configurations. While users can Upgrade the G4 PowerMac's very easily with new cards and such the likelihood of having the OS, or a software program spontaneously combust is much lower on a Mac. Keeping it this way allows Apple to keep that sort of happy setting within the Macintosh community, and they're not letting go of it anytime soon.
Life is study!}
DigitalVolume
The Way It Should Be.
However you mention that RISC has been around since the mid nineties...
I believe you\'ll find that RISC chips have been around for a lot longer than that... nearly as long as CISC chips have...
http://sol.brunel.ac.uk/history/histrisc.html
http://www.bluewaternz.com/startoff/intro.htm
:-)
statements were incorrect, and have ammended all
information in my brain to synchronize with it.
Do we all however, agree that RISC is better than
CISC? I know the two technologies are now getting
very close to each other, but RISC sems to have much,
much more life left in it. Though if both technology
styles are that old, isn\'t it time for new technology?
I feel antiquated now. Oh well, more food for me :)
Life is study!
Chris Giddings
DigitalVolume
The Way It Should Be.
btw... Geeklog is an incredible project. Great Job!!
If you don\'t know what your talking about. Read. Study. Experience. Stop posting when your moutpiece is your ass. Installing Linux on your computer does not make you competent; it makes you part of the unconscious drones repeating just another new marketing slogan that is so popular right now.
Where were you when Linux wasn\'t easy to install or popular? Were you making comments about how it was only good for running Apache and XFree86 sucked? Probably not. And don\'t think we don\'t know why. Because you are an idiot. You don\'t even realize that by posting out here in the real, wide world, that what works on people even dumber than you won\'t work here, other than to prove your utter lack of credulity.
Small price to pay I guess, for our global consipiracy to get the dumbest people in the world to keep to themselves and out of our way. Come back when you can write a GUI program instead of use one. We know you\'ll never, ever get there. The conspiracy rests comfortably on that fact. Enjoy the fruit of Apple\'s innovation... you don\'t have to realize it. Just stay where you are.
Yep, I do think youve missed the hype. Take a look at os x. This isnt 9.
Here is the link.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,496270,00.asp
They also just released the Darwin Kernel for Intel processors, no AMD support as of yet.
Also, to whomever posted about how OSX is tied to the PowerPC and could never be ported to i386....thats just not true. OSX is based on BSD and contains little if any legacy code.
Well. Linux does _not_ need that, never has, and they have never needed you. Likewise with Apple. Please, please, stay off of that computer. We\'d like to keep you people on x86 and believing that your \'70\'s era instructions really do rock, and so does IDE and shitty BIOS. Linux deals with this stuff nicely - a tribute to the cleverness and ingenuity of people all over the world to not only produce great quality, but do so with sub-par components.
Apple provides great consumer quality. And Sun and *BSD provide great commercial quality - as do some carefully chosen Linux options. If you like that quality, then go get it. If you don\'t, stay with x86 and keep jacking yourself off about one kind of motherboard, and one instruction set, and no alternatives. You can continue to hold your myopic views and not bother the rest of us with your burdensome anti-logic.
There are hobbyists who work with what they have and not with what they can\'t afford, and then there are those who consistently buy shit like Intel boxes and Windows who remain stupid enough to drive gear down to commodity prices for the rest of us. Thank you, but please, stay where you are.
- Rusty
Starting with G3s Macs moved to cheaper IDE...the same guy that was complaining about PC users spouting trash is spouting incorrect facts himself.
In other news, I am a PC lover - BUT...I am buying a Titanium G4 because it is a wonderful machine. Simple. I\'ve always been a unix man, so being able to tinker on a command line level is often nicer and easier than using a gui...I also love the instant results of a Mac...
Unfortunately I never felt that you could immerse yourself too much in the mac\'s OS environment, where I could on a PC. Hopefully that has changed with the new OSx.
Two things that annoy me: OSx doesnt allow for a change in window managers like linux would, and I\'m not sure I will be able to get used to having programs just dumped in the / directory (at least that\'s how it is on my buddy\'s computer...maybe he\'s just an idiot)
He probably is. An app on OS X is an icon with a 'wrapper' underneath. Just take the icon (prog) and put it where you want. Apps are not confined to certain folders, etc
And if you don't want the app, just drop it in the trash
;-)
You like windows.....bite me. You\'re a F*cking idiot! What is there to like? Stop bickering like a b*tch and accept the fact that they got your pants down and your taking it large!
As a serious business developer I have dabled with every aspect of programming technology. Nothing is sacred in the MS world. How can you back somebody who develops a \'data access object\' for windows that breaks the last one is not compatible with the new one and is different to the one you get with Office....which by the way is completely incompatible with any other one and so forth....I for one have had enough of this sh*t! I now spend my time redevloping everything I developed the year before to make sure it still works with all the same new sh*t MS brings out.
Don\'t b*tch about PCs being faster. That just means your machine crashes quicker and as for price.....do you drive a lada?. THINK before you speak. I do not own a mac, but I want to. I do not know if they are better but what an MS fan has to ask themselves is.....can it get any worse? Personal oppinion die Microsoft you had your chance....
.NET......what the f*ck? A whole new way to develop the same stuff you developed last year.....just when I thought I could enjoy my creativity instead I settle down to relearn everything again.
Oh how I love the sound of my new wind tunnel pc......not.
what the guy said before my post about having to go over all his previos work to keep up with microsoft,,,,what about osx.2 jaguar,,,what a joke,,, you install the os,,,and then you realise no one has released anything to work with it yet,,like quark express only a £1000,,,but now jag is installed i can not print with it,cos it only works in classic,,,im sorry macs are a rip off,,and another thing matey was saying about macs being the biggest earner what are you going on about,,,i dont think bill gates is the richest man in the world cos mac make more,,,and no mac are not hardware based,,,, proccesors made by motorola,,,hard drives by ibm,,,,macs are just a rip off pc.
I converted to Mac OSX last year and recently had to use a windows Xp
system - what a load of crap, you forget after you have been using Mac
just how Sh*t windows is. It was so slow, It crashed, it couldn't manage
its own memory, the fan was like a bloody hurricane blowing through the
office. I know regard windows systems like cheap tarts on the make,
colourful, noisy, cheap and they go down all the time!
Mac Rocks they are the only people who put together a total package,
from looks to performance and if you want to you need never know what
an operating system is. If Mac ruled in terms of market share the
internet would fly, the world would have more computer users and
corporations would have saved Billions.
Bill Gates should admit defeat and join Saddam in obscurity.
Long live the Mac
Long live the Mac
Andy
discussion I've become accustomed to around here. It's a real
shame. I enjoy geeklog's collaborative and open atmosphere,
which you are trying to corrupt with your anger. Save it for
comment #847 on slashdot. Maybe the gl team should take a page
from k5: if it's worth saying, it's worth logging in.
They can not afford to get out of the hardware business. How hard would it be to launch an new product like the ipod, if they were not sure that all Mac would have fire wire. How are they going to continue to provide legendary tech support if they have to support some over clocked AMD chip.
Never going to happen, period.
People need to get over the fact that Mac hardware costs more, nobody complains that BMW parts do not fit in to Toyotas.
Mac is switching to X86
It's funny going back to this poll and seeing the opinions that this day would never
come.
I can't decide if it's a good thing or a bad thing. On the downside it'll mean a forced
hardware upgrade next year. The upside it means that windows software will be
easier to port to OS X, and there is the possibility of dual boot windows and OS X.
However! - You also need to realize that mac software selection is almost nonexistant when compared to the availible selection of PC software, and software that is availible for mac, is 99% of the time also avail for PC on one OS or another. If you want to play anything near a newer game, yer gonna need a PC, game devel and hardware devel goes where the money is, sorry. Also, some of you where bashing PC hardware spouting that the MACS has better hardware. Macs for the most part come with IDE hardrives, PC133 or DDR memory, and AGP video cards along with other things; all of which were designed for and made cost effective by the i386 followers. Also, if macs were so awesome, why dont they hold a majority on servers. The answer... bigger - more powerful systems for less $$, better support, more software. Overall better performance. Also, all you mac fans that spout yer G5s out there, the G5 is a great chip, ill give you that. But Apple themselves have given up on the RISC based motorola processors due to their insane heat and power requirements, and very limited headroom to grow. Recent Apple press releases have said that apple is moving over to an i386 based platform with a propritory rom systems to enforce Apple software only runs on their systems. Even Apple admits to having a fully running port of OSX for i386, requireing their rom.
So, what are you left with, Apple themselves have given up on their platform and moved to i386. Face it, apple is going the way of SEGA. Software only enforced by a hardware key. MAC lovers... stick it where the sun dont shine and realize that at some point the market is going to force you to mainstream or die.
that in the working world, Mac is better in most enviroments. Sure there are
few games for macs, but look at the market for macs. Editing. Images,
Films, and Audio. For those purposes they are the best, the best because
they work clean and efficently. Need to transfer files from one computer to
an other? No problem! Just hold down a key and connect the firewire cable
to the two computers, or make a private network without configuretion with
eithernet. MAC hardware may not be perfect, from my experence it has its
problems, but I will say that I will not ever, EVER go back to Windows until
they make a decent OS! Windows is far behind, there is no way around it.
Your common Unix based OS's can easily be networked, become servers, and
be able to do their task quickly and cleanly once you know what you are
doing. Yes MS has the market cornered, but now in 2006 there seems to be
a new interest in the fact that mac is dual-boot. So what if mac is holding
back a I386 install. Like said before it keeps the quality of support and
makes it easier for the programers to write good code because they took out
all of the varibles and they can focus on making a better OS. Looking what
Mac is doing on the I386 arcitecture now, I am just waiting to see what is
around the corner, because unless Windows has something to compete with
in terms of OS, people might take a closer look at MAC. Just a thought.