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Geeklog The Ultimate Weblog System
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Friday, May 16 2008 @ 02:36 AM EDT
   

Wandering the CMS jungle

GeeklogHi Geeks;

I am sufficiently impressed with GL to pause my journey through the CMS evaluation jungle, and offer some comments. As someone looking for my first CMS, and being a developer of PC software, I thought perhaps my observations and suggestions could be helpful to your admirable efforts. I have read countless comments and reviews, and sampled just about everything "out there."

* Be one of the few to provide a clear link to an admin demo. It's what most of us shoppers want to see FIRST. I know there is one on OpenSourceCMS.com, but they are often a few versions behind. As a shopper, I expect a vendor to show me what I expect to find on their main site, quickly and easily. I still can't find yours. No one wants to download and install, just to test drive.

* I hope i don't offend anyone, but as I am also a designer (of products, graphics and software), I feel qualified to say that your choice of the xsilver theme is a serious mistake. The dark gray, overly boxy theme is very off-putting, and gives the entire product a rather gloomy and depressed aura. (Others have mentioned this in some of your comments). I would not ignore this. I visited twice before, and both times, I left immediately, feeling that the visual sensibility was so dated and depressing, that it simply must reflect on the product itself. Your Blue theme is more pleasing and inviting (and far more likely to appeal to "average" tastes). Even if it doesn't, it isn't likely to turn them off. I realize developers have a fondness for utilitarian look and feel, but your users are often looking for ways to dress up their content--easily. I think it would serve you well to even but a Theme changer right on the home page.

* For some reason, like most CMS products, you have some aversion to providing a page to extoll your features and benefits. It's the first thing I look for on any product site. Direct me to what i should see, and why, and I will follow you anywhere. Simply adding an "About" section would remedy this. I'm sure you have plenty of copy lying about which you could toss in the section.

* The Links module seems sorely deficient (or at least what is visible). No ratings, ranking, comments, icons, or other bells and whistles of a good links module. Granted, this is something key that I am looking for, but I have noticed in my travels, that many others are too.

* Find some way to show diverity of content. I realize that articles are your primary form of content, but any site today needs more than articles. Not sure if you have file management or image galleries, but they would be nice to see on the main menu, if you do.

* A WYSIWYG editor (or efforts to add one) is really becoming a standard in most CMS systems out there. HTMLarea seems to be a popular choice. I would add this early on. It makes your look oh so au currant :)

I hope these remarks are helpful. I really do think you have a fine product here. I still plan to "look under the hood" with my system engineer, but my current sense is that we may find more core functions that we need elsewhere, at least for our professional project. For my personal blog, I am very much considering GL.

I wish you well with it.

--Matt

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Wandering the CMS jungle | 15 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Dirk on Friday, May 09 2003 @ 03:37 AM EDT
Matt,

thanks for your comments. Actually, you are touching on a couple of discussions that are already going on amongst the developers behind the scenes. So we are aware of most of the issues you mentioned and are looking into addressing them in the (near?) future.

A quick comment on HTMLarea: There is a hack to integrate HTMLarea (over on squatty.com, I think). However, that solution is strictly for the Windows version of Internet Explorer only and therefore not of any benefit to, for example, our Linux and MacOS users.

bye, Dirk
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 09 2003 @ 03:48 AM EDT
The new version supports Mozilla .. so that's a STEP in the right direction .. that step will be complete once they move from 'alpha'. Having said that, the alpha version is still quite fast and stable for an alpha. It's a pretty bright future over there.
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 09 2003 @ 11:11 AM EDT
theres a plugin for links with all the bells and whistles.

theres a plugin for a gallery.

theres a plugin for file management.

I agree we need a "why geeklog is the best", and a happier theme.
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: rv8 on Friday, May 09 2003 @ 12:07 PM EDT
Where is this links plugin? My site uses Squatty's phplinks hack, but I am not aware of any plug-in, not in the way that plug-in is defined in GL.

---
Kevin

Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 09 2003 @ 01:15 PM EDT
Sorry I guess its not a geeklog defined plugin. But I think everybody understood what I was trying to say.

Maybee next tyme u kan korrect mes grammer two.
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, May 09 2003 @ 04:50 PM EDT
hey you spelled stuff wrong. :)
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 12 2003 @ 10:08 AM EDT
Nice to see that you welcome the feedback Geekers!

Regarding plug-ins, I have the same complaint here that I have about most CMS sites. Since many shoppers might be sold on the product, based solely on a particular plugin, a test-drive site that has ALL (or many) of them installed would be a huge selling tool. The most useful site I have found yet, is OpenSourceCMS.com, where I can try out the admins of various systems. I would ensure you keep that site current, but having your own test site would be best. Perhaps one with any and all major plug-ins ready to run. Obviously, when multiple plug-ins are available, a switcher would be ideal. I realize that isn't trivial, but it sure would demonstrate your flexibility, and your desire to really support the needs of the non-programmer.

As for Anonymous's comment about Xsilver being "serious," obviously, such issues are a matter of preference. And while it's very common for technical people to have that preference, I could easily point out many of the most technically adept sites on the web, none of which rely on drab to imply "serious." Clean and uncluttered is serious, for me. And that doesn't have to mean funereal. There is a hacker culture that enjoys dark text on black backgrounds too. The fact that it's impossible to read, is to them, a hip thing. But to the rest of us, it's just incomprehensible and arguably rude.

Since I'm discussing the purely subjective, let's pull out all the stops and touch on another issue. Impressions mean a lot. That's why we always make an effort to make them, so it stands to reason that the actual impressions made receive some critique.

You have two slogans, which many marketing folks would suggest is a big mistake. Best to keep your message simple, and repeat it often. If Geeklog were merely a single product in a family of products, it would make sense to have a second slogan that was different from your primary slogan. I would standardize on just one.

As for which one, I would choose neither of your current flavors. Let me give you my reasons.

1) Nifty Stuff by Nifty People: I think many serious people, of which I count myself among, have an aversion to "Nifty" things. It's somewhat trivializing. I expect a cute little animation to be "nifty," but not the tool on which my business or career might be depend. I realize that this may be an effort to appear folksy and down-to-earth, but the net-effect on me was "young developers trying to appear cool and laid back." Since I was looking for serious tools, for serious purpose, this was an immediate turn-off. The rule of thumb I use is this: would I be comfortable walking into a board room of a billion dollar company, and showing them a proposed solution that relied on a "nifty" product? Most PR and advertising people would answer: "not if you like paying the mortgage."

How prevalent this impression is with others, I can't say, but my hunch and experience tells me it's not a rarified response. Granted, the billion dollar company may not be your market, but I would argue that even the casual web site operator often has serious intent, and can come from a disciplined corporate background. Old culture dies hard.

2) The Ultimate Weblog System
Again, I can't speak for everyone, but I am inherently suspicious of anything that claims to be the ultimate anything. Geeklog is a nice product, but the ultimate is a pretty big bite of hyperbole to swallow. You rarely see mature products, services and companies making such claims. They might initially, but when the image makers step in, that changes fast. There is a reason for that. Hyperbole can convey a sense of the undisciplined, the naive, the arrogant, or the terminally deluded.

IMHO, the safer and more memorable route is a slogan that decribes your benefit, philosophy, or what you do for people. While I don't claim these have any sizzle, and I don't have time to come up with any that do, consider approaches like:

Geeklog: When content counts.
Geeklog: Tools for the interactive age.
Geeklog: Weblogs with a difference.
Geeklog: Content Management,Weblogs and more.
Geeklog: A simpler approach to content management.
Geeklog: The very un-geeky solution.


The last is offered mostly with tongue firmly in cheek, but it raises another issue that any slogan might help with. The name "Geek"log says to most of us "a solution by, and for, techno-nerds." This is precisely the opposite of what you actually want to convey to your market. Your entire philosophy seems geared to making technically robust solutions easier to use by the non-technical person. Thus, the name and goal are working at cross-purposes. But you have already branded your name, and I wouldn't suggest changing it. But I would think about using a slogan to offset this effect somehow. You might also somehow address the contradiction in the very first paragraph of any About section you develop.

Again, all of the above is merely my opinion. I hope it's useful, if only for stimulating discussion.

Keep up the great work. I look forward to examining all these plug-ins.

--Matt

Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, May 12 2003 @ 03:36 PM EDT
Although constructive criticism is welcome, you need to remember the Open Source community is run mainly by volunteers who aren't compensated for the time and energy spent. Most people contributing to these projects do it as a hobby or to learn some programming not as a paid job. They usually gain nothing other than experience and perhaps some self-satisfaction if others use their software. They lose nothing if other people don't use it unless they are charging money.

You are evaluating these OS CMS projects in the same light as one would do to a commercial product developed and maintained by full-time paid employees and that is a very big mistake on your part. Recommending things like a test-drive site with all the plugins and blocks is a nice idea, but it's unreasonable to wish or expect someone else to absorb all the expense and time needed to build and maintain this. If you plan to continue suggesting things which require a lot of effort or expense, at least put up your own hand and volunteer to help or pull out your wallet and be willing to pay someone else. The OS community is filled with many people who have all sorts of great ideas and recommendations but they quickly disappear when someone turns to them and says: "Yeah, that's a great idea. How about if you help out?"

Some of your recommendations for improving Geeklog's image are valid and good and I agree with them. Call it selfish, but I would rather see the developers spend their time working on new features and bug fixes. Things like a name and slogan are important in the commercial world not in the OS world where people's motives are quite different. It doesn't matter if 1,000 or 100,000 use your software unless you are making money off of them. If the developers want to attract more businesses in the hope of getting contracts, by all means spend the time. If not, IMO a complete image makeover like you want them to do is a waste.
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, May 10 2003 @ 06:24 AM EDT
Actually the XSilver theme is what attracted me to stay on the site when I reviewed various CMSs, I clicked around and got the feeling that GL must be a serious statement in software development. So I guess there cannot be 'the theme' for everyone...

But I agree that there must be something like an 'about' section where it tells all the features in one (big) list - but with the 'Resources' block it's much better now than in the beginning. (see the Documentation -> Features link) In the end, the fact that GL was just meant to be a blog but actually is a powerful CMS already speaks for the system as well. The tweaking possibilities through hacking a theme are awesome...

PS: If you haven't been there, visit the GL plugins page + their download page at Sourceforge.
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, May 10 2003 @ 01:17 PM EDT
I think it depends on what your interest is in using a CMS. I bet the majority of those who like and use the XSilver theme or a derivative of it are running personal websites. Most of those running business, school, and professional sites steer clear of it.

When I first came here, I immediately left without even trying anything because the theme alone gave me a bad first impression. I needed a CMS for my brand new business and for some reason just one look at XSilver convinced me immediately no way would Geeklog ever fit the bill. Had I not read an article and the ensuing discussion on another site about different CMS' where some people posted positive comments about Geeklog's security system, I would not have come back for a second look and actually test drive it. I've been using it since and am very happy with the software.

If Geeklog wants to primarily cater to personal and hobby websites, the XSilver theme is okay. If they want to attract other groups, I agree with the author they need to change it.
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 11 2003 @ 05:59 AM EDT
I agree, XSilver is just as geeky as the name itself, not that I would care - :D hehe

At least there's the Theme Tester block for those who dare to have a second sight. Another argument is that when GL would be used for a business/production site, there's possibly a budget to make a theme (e.g. to fit the corporate ID of the company, even the smallest 5 man company should have such...).

Now what matters if what the Dev's have in mind - which is outlined in the Gekklog 2 Risk Plan.
As a graphics design student I have played with the theme and hacked something together. Are the devs open for submissions...?
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Dirk on Sunday, May 11 2003 @ 12:34 PM EDT
As a graphics design student I have played with the theme and hacked something together. Are the devs open for submissions...?

Sure. There are a lot of nice themes around but we could really do with some that have a more "professional" (as in "not too colorful, not too hobbyist") look.

bye, Dirk

Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 11 2003 @ 05:18 PM EDT
ok, I'll put something together and send a screenshot....
Wandering the CMS jungle
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, May 11 2003 @ 06:01 AM EDT
oops, the wrong thread...
I agree, see my post below...
Can I do this?
Authored by: TechFan on Sunday, May 11 2003 @ 07:32 AM EDT
I am new to the CMS scene, but I am trying to figure out how/if I can accomplish what I need with geeklog.

Currently the primary use of our website (my wife and I) is to share pictures and news with our families, but we would like to add dynamic information to it, such as local news, weather, quote of the week, etc. And in doing this I want to still not make managing our website a big task.

I also want to have passworded sections of the site to post news/info we don't want easily accessible to the entire internet. I am already using Gallery and am enjoying it. I have been wanting to see how gallery fits into geeklog, but unfortunately, I haven't found any demos that show gallery integrated and let me see how permissions can be set up. I would like to know how the permissions pass between the host system and the gallery. It seems that most of these CMS systems let users create their own logins by automatic registration. . .I would like to still manually control who gets access to my gallery albums.

Anyway, if any of you have been pursuing the same things or know of how I can start moving in this direction, please point me where I need to go to get the tools or do some testing (like checking out how the permissions interface). Thanks.